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The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: No smocking guns. The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: No smocking guns.

01-24-2017 , 06:09 PM
Trump didn't stop them from gutting the Ethics Committee, he literally just said there was more important **** to do.
01-24-2017 , 06:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobman0330
It's hard to argue that a Westminster system wouldn't be better than what we have now, but obviously that doesn't disprove Chait's arguments about the Dem stratagem. I read an argument last week that the key failing of our existing system is the downfall of strong party organizations with incentives to keep things running responsibly so they can dole out spoils to insiders. That's probably easier to reverse than the fundamental political structure of the US.
Sure, I should have said it's a meta analysis of Chait's argument rather than a refutation. I think the strong party argument is true, though it chafes against the purist idea of politics as two arguments going on the merits to see who wins.

Quote:
As to the merits of Chait's argument, there's some political tactical stuff that's hard to evaluate, but it also has a whiff of one clever trick to bring down Trump. Which is to say, what is the point of this maneuver? Is it just to get infrastructure spending? If so, is that goal worth the cost of giving Trump a victory on a bipartisan infrastructure deal? Others can disagree, but the state of infrastructure is not on my top 10 list of concerns about America right now. Is the goal to steal credit for the infrastructure bill? How does that really work with voters in 2 or 4 or 6 years? I worry that the Dems are reluctant to buckle down to bitter, dogged opposition status because it's not very fun, so they're resorting to misguided grand bargaineering.
The strategy is simple enough. Trump says he's a populist, so Democrats are going to propose populist policies and then use his failure to enact them to build a political dossier against him so to speak.

Chait doesn't mention it in this article but he does mention it in a previous one that Democrats have a fundamental difference when it comes to governance with Republicans in that they have a fundamental belief that government should work, so they'll be much more reluctant to go full on obstructionist because it goes against the grain of the Democratic idea of being elected to get things done.

Sadly, I think that the assumptions he points out are correct. People simply don't pay enough attention to politics for Democrats to play this slow and steady building up a populist case against Trump to use 4 years from now. The voters will just look at the 2020 elections with fresh eyes and that small segment that switched from Democrat to Republican based on Trump's seeming populism, they'll vote for whoever sounds the most populist regardless of what Trump actually does, assuming the economic fundamentals stay the same. I think Chait's dumb to think that Democrats are pulling these kinds of things out of a naive earnestness for infrastructure and not political maneuvering though. It's obvious it's a ploy, and it'd be a smart one too, if the assumptions behind it were true.

Last edited by Huehuecoyotl; 01-24-2017 at 06:30 PM.
01-24-2017 , 06:14 PM
The baby boomers are going to destroy the land and pollute the water until they are dead clearly.

DRILL BABY DRILL
01-24-2017 , 06:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrWookie
Yeah, but here's the thing. Most pro-lifers don't think that women getting abortions should be punished like murders.
Most people don't want to punish killers who don't realize that they are murdering like murderers so that argument is flawed.
01-24-2017 , 06:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 13ball
Stein was echoing the same "emails were a crime" mantra as the hard right. Someone on the left making those statements made the accusations more believable and probably hurt Clinton at least in terms of turnout.

So **** her. She gets some credit here. She'll also get some credit in a few years when we have a bunch of unvaccinated kids who end up autistic anyway.
jill stein and anybody who voted for her are complete morons and they can all get ****ed as far as i'm concerned
01-24-2017 , 06:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RV Life
Education is key. People need to know what a zygote is.
They think zygotes has souls. If you counter that you need to be conscious to have a soul then its OK to kill your six month old child as well (which I believe is actually the stance of some philosophers.)
01-24-2017 , 06:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Sklansky
Most people don't want to punish killers who don't realize that they are murdering like murderers so that argument is flawed.
Holy word salad. This makes no sense.
01-24-2017 , 06:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clovis8
Holy word salad. This makes no sense.
Nah, it does. But few things are that simple. I would bet there's heavy overlap between pro-lifers and supporters of eg drone strikes, for example.
01-24-2017 , 06:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Sklansky
They think zygotes has souls. If you counter that you need to be conscious to have a soul then its OK to kill your six month old child as well (which I believe is actually the stance of some philosophers.)
Maybe for people who are stuck on superstition. The science world doesn't think that. Maybe you should go look up scholarly articles.

https://www.wired.com/2013/04/baby-consciousness/

Literally first google hit.
01-24-2017 , 06:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RV Life
.

01-24-2017 , 06:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Victor
So far its been the opposite actually. Trump shamed the dirty repubs from gutting the ethics committee.
No, he didn't. Voters calling their congresscritters did.
01-24-2017 , 07:03 PM
Anyone catch the "Defend Trump" commercial on CNN?
01-24-2017 , 07:14 PM


Jake Tapper taking the gloves off 4 days into this ****
01-24-2017 , 07:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RV Life
So what's going to happen w/ the Dakota Pipeline? You know the Native Americans up there ain't gonna move.
back around early december, there was set to be around iirc 2,000 veterans heading to standing rock to peacefully guard the water protectors from both the local police and energy transfer partner's own security force, aka the "oil police," who were using military tactics and had even mangled a girl's arm with a concussion grenade.

the veterans had crowdfunded well over one million dollars online for this effort and had a ton of support on twitter; however one or two days before they were set to deploy, the army corp of engineers publicly delayed the pipeline, presumably to avoid the confrontation.

although now that the pipeline is back on, i'm certain these veterans will show up, and it's going to be very interesting to see how trump handles the situation, especially considering how much he claims to "love the vets."
01-24-2017 , 07:17 PM
Trump's going to scale back to standard politician lying and the media will fawn all over him for it. #4DCHESS
01-24-2017 , 07:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by +rep_lol
jill stein and anybody who voted for her are complete morons and they can all get ****ed as far as i'm concerned
This was Jill Stein's statement on Clinton's emails:

http://www.jill2016.com/stein_prosec...ional_security

It could have been written by the RNC, FFS.

Quote:
her staff has said Secretary Clinton stated she used her private email system because she did not want her personal emails to become accessible under FOI laws. This is damning on two counts – that she intended to disregard the protection of security information, and that she had personal business to conceal.
WTF? It's damning that Clinton wanted to keep her personal emails out of public record searches? And how does that prove she intended to "disregard the protection of security information"?

It's one thing to get onto Clinton for the things she actually did. It's another to start trying to out-Hannity Hannity. I have no idea how much her BS affected the election, but I saw a ton of people saying "even liberal Jill Stein wants Hillary in prison." Thanks, "Dr."
01-24-2017 , 07:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by locknopair
back around early december, there was set to be around iirc 2,000 veterans heading to standing rock to guard the water protectors from both the local police and energy transfer partner's own security force, aka the "oil police," who were using military tactics and had even mangled a girl's arm with a concussion grenade.

the veterans had crowdfunded well over one million dollars online for this effort and had a ton of support on twitter; however one or two days before they were set to deploy, the army corp of engineers publicly delayed the pipeline, presumably to avoid the confrontation.

although now that the pipeline is back on, i'm certain these veterans will show up, and it's going to be very interesting to see how trump handles the situation, especially considering how much he claims to "love the vets."
I'm gonna guess they've found a way to restrict access to the site this time. Also the Republican base gives a **** about vets the same way they give a **** about conservative principles - when it suits them.
01-24-2017 , 07:19 PM
4-D chess is just ****ting on a chessboard, by the way.
01-24-2017 , 07:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by locknopair
back around early december, there was set to be around iirc 2,000 veterans heading to standing rock to peacefully guard the water protectors from both the local police and energy transfer partner's own security force, aka the "oil police," who were using military tactics and had even mangled a girl's arm with a concussion grenade.

the veterans had crowdfunded well over one million dollars online for this effort and had a ton of support on twitter; however one or two days before they were set to deploy, the army corp of engineers publicly delayed the pipeline, presumably to avoid the confrontation.

although now that the pipeline is back on, i'm certain these veterans will show up, and it's going to be very interesting to see how trump handles the situation, especially considering how much he claims to "love the vets."
Those are two different pipelines that have nothing to do with the other. They don't even carry the same product.

There is a lot of really bad science and misinformation around pipelines on this forum.
01-24-2017 , 07:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Namath12
You rang?

http://www.slate.com/blogs/moneybox/...deduction.html

It will be interesting to see the reaction from charities (read: churches) to this
What?

In the unlikely event mortgage interest deduction is eliminated it would effectively be a tax hike on the rich.

I think what we have here is a clear case of Slate bot et al getting their wires crossed. Trump/GOP proposes something ergo it's bad.

The reality is the mortgage interest deduction is a massive handout to the rich:

Quote:
More than four-fifths of the value of the mortgage interest and property tax deductions goes to households with incomes of more than $100,000, and more than two-fifths goes to families with incomes above $200,000, according to estimates by the congressional Joint Committee on Taxation.
Meanwhile renting has never been more expensive in the US:

Quote:
As of the end of 2015, the average American making the nation’s median annual income ($55,589) and looking to buy the typical American home (valued at $183,600 as of December) could expect to pay 15 percent of their income towards their monthly mortgage payment.[1] Compared to historic norms, this is quite affordable: In the years between 1985 and 2000, homebuyers could expect to pay 21 percent of their income on a monthly mortgage payment, on average.

The same American looking to rent a typical home should plan to set aside 30 percent of their income each month to pay their landlord. Unlike paying a mortgage, paying rent today is much less affordable than it was historically, when a renter could expect to pay 26 percent of their income on rent.
Also

Quote:
A recent report from the Joint Center for Housing Studies (JCHS) at Harvard, puts some numbers on just how bad this problem is: About half of all renters in the U.S. are using more than 30 percent of their income to cover housing costs, and about 25 percent have rent that exceeds 50 percent of their monthly pay.
Rent is too damn high indeed.

And the numbers get waaaay worse when you limit the areas to places people actually want to live.

Last edited by thenewsavman; 01-24-2017 at 07:33 PM.
01-24-2017 , 07:29 PM
Look like the Trump administration is looking for a safe space.

http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-s...d=sm_fb_maddow
01-24-2017 , 07:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kerowo
Look like the Trump administration is looking for a safe space.

http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-s...d=sm_fb_maddow
Rachel Maddow!
01-24-2017 , 07:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by locknopair
back around early december, there was set to be around iirc 2,000 veterans heading to standing rock to peacefully guard the water protectors from both the local police and energy transfer partner's own security force, aka the "oil police," who were using military tactics and had even mangled a girl's arm with a concussion grenade.

the veterans had crowdfunded well over one million dollars online for this effort and had a ton of support on twitter; however one or two days before they were set to deploy, the army corp of engineers publicly delayed the pipeline, presumably to avoid the confrontation.

although now that the pipeline is back on, i'm certain these veterans will show up, and it's going to be very interesting to see how trump handles the situation, especially considering how much he claims to "love the vets."
I think he'll love them about this much:

01-24-2017 , 07:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul D
Given Trump's TPP announcement yesterday I find this video hilarious as a comparison of conservatives then and now...

This is kind of my go to argument when confronting fellow Republicans who are stupid or short sighted enough to support Trump. I mean really, since when did a real republican care if some kid could leave high school and get a decent paying job at some factory? When did we become the Party that would use the tax code and tariffs to force private business to choose less cost effective means of production? It's practically Bernie Sanders socialism and protectionism wrapped in the flag, with a little shout out to the cops and military. Total Joke.

Trump's genius is creating a "platform" that targets middle and lower middle class Americans who disagree on principal on social issues with the Democratic Party, while simultaneously playing to their economic needs and fears that never got a real voice in the old GOP. Actually pretty smart, pretty sure the Bannon types thought that up.

This President actually met with union leaders on first day as President. He is a disgrace to the GOP. He is occupying that special place where communism and Facism meet and meld together at the far end of the circle. I am actually hoping for a financial meltdown, because any economic success will only make his more fascist and Un American philosophies more easily achievable.

Free Markets, Free Minds, Free Men. Not America First. Americans first, as individuals, free to hire, spend, earn, think, express.
01-24-2017 , 07:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by leavesofliberty
Rachel Maddow is taken more seriously and listened to by more people than my hero Ron Paul and my muses at mises.org!
FYP

      
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