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The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: No smocking guns. The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: No smocking guns.

01-14-2018 , 05:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cuserounder
The second person is confirming the identity of the POTUS and that the order was given, not confirming that it is a good order to give.



Again, they don't have the legal authority to disobey the order. They can tell him there's no threat, but if he says, "MY PHONE SAYS I'M ABOUT TO DIE, LAUNCH NOW! GO THAT'S AN ORDER!" They are then required to launch. If some of them don't, there's a likelihood of a Saturday Night Massacre-style set of rapid firings until someone does.

And, a general taking away the Constitutionally-granted power of the presidency is essentially a coup.
Yeah, but first the generals are going to run it by SCOTUS to see if it's an illegal war without congressional approval, a legit emergency the POTUS is empowered to act on, or covered by the very open ended AUMF against terrrorsm. And then the generals still have to clear it with ICC to see if it's a war crime. Right?
01-14-2018 , 05:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cuserounder
The second person is confirming the identity of the POTUS and that the order was given, not confirming that it is a good order to give.



Again, they don't have the legal authority to disobey the order. They can tell him there's no threat, but if he says, "MY PHONE SAYS I'M ABOUT TO DIE, LAUNCH NOW! GO THAT'S AN ORDER!" They are then required to launch. If some of them don't, there's a likelihood of a Saturday Night Massacre-style set of rapid firings until someone does.

And, a general taking away the Constitutionally-granted power of the presidency is essentially a coup.
RE: the bolded, I thought (from listening to Dan Carlin's podcast on nukes) that this isn't actually granted in the Constitution? But actually like a workaround due to the time constraints imposed by intercontinental ballistic missiles.
01-14-2018 , 05:19 PM
You can call it a coup if you want but if Trump wakes up at 3:00 am and wants to use the nukes as a first strike in a conflict he imagined, it is not going to happen.

There will be a Tywin Lannister moment where he is sent back to his bedroom with some Tylenol.

Legality, whatever.
01-14-2018 , 05:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ReasonableGuy
RE: the bolded, I thought (from listening to Dan Carlin's podcast on nukes) that this isn't actually granted in the Constitution? But actually like a workaround due to the time constraints imposed by intercontinental ballistic missiles.
Good point... But none the less it is a power held by the office that a general has no authority/power to take away. I call that a coup.

Quote:
Originally Posted by OmgGlutten!
You can call it a coup if you want but if Trump wakes up at 3:00 am and wants to use the nukes as a first strike in a conflict he imagined, it is not going to happen.

There will be a Tywin Lannister moment where he is sent back to his bedroom with some Tylenol.

Legality, whatever.
First of all, we're not talking about waking up at 3am, we're talking about as a response to this false alarm. But even if he woke up at 3am, he has the authority to do it. We're counting on people breaking the law to stop him.

I'm shocked how many people are comfortable with relying on military officials breaking the law to save us from this scenario. Also, keep in mind, he can fire those guys (or the people who CAN fire them).
01-14-2018 , 05:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 13ball
It's all over, libs:

Even by Fox News standards, this is obscenely dishonest and deceptive. This indictment has nothing to do with the Uranium One deal, nothing to do with selling US uranium to foreign countries, nothing to do with Clinton, and nothing to do with Obama. I literally read the Justice Department press release and none of those words/items are in it.

A guy with a nuclear transportation company allegedly bribed a Russian official to get a contract to transport uranium from Russia to the US. The way Fox strung a few sentences together there to make this about Clinton is ABSURD.

Like, even as a public figure, I think she could have a non-zero chance of successfully suing for slander. She obviously won't, but I'm just saying that's how intentionally deceptive this is.
01-14-2018 , 05:36 PM
01-14-2018 , 05:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cuserounder
Good point... But none the less it is a power held by the office that a general has no authority/power to take away. I call that a coup.
You can call it a crumpet if you prefer. You have the freedom to call it whatever you like to make yourself feel better.



Quote:
Originally Posted by cuserounder
First of all, we're not talking about waking up at 3am, we're talking about as a response to this false alarm. But even if he woke up at 3am, he has the authority to do it. We're counting on people breaking the law to stop him.

I'm shocked how many people are comfortable with relying on military officials breaking the law to save us from this scenario. Also, keep in mind, he can fire those guys (or the people who CAN fire them).
Well, hopefully if in the middle of the night when Trump is trying to smash the bigly red Easy Button near his bed, others will have the courage to have a crumpet.

All the best.
01-14-2018 , 05:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cuserounder
Good point... But none the less it is a power held by the office that a general has no authority/power to take away. I call that a coup.



First of all, we're not talking about waking up at 3am, we're talking about as a response to this false alarm. But even if he woke up at 3am, he has the authority to do it. We're counting on people breaking the law to stop him.

I'm shocked how many people are comfortable with relying on military officials breaking the law to save us from this scenario. Also, keep in mind, he can fire those guys (or the people who CAN fire them).
McMaster already wants a first strike. I'm definitely not comfortable with relying on military officials. One of those guys may well be egging him on even if they know it's a false alarm.
01-14-2018 , 05:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matty Lice
Like, the start of WW3 was a real possibility yesterday.
I don't know if posters are serious when they write that sentence or whether they are just using hyperbole. Because it is obviously not true.

HOWEVER the above sentence is not necessarily a good thing. Especially if you live in either Korea. The fact that the rest of the world is exhibiting some sympathy to the US side in the United nNtions and elsewhere, is actually something that could be scary to the Koreas since it implies that Trump doesn't have to worry that an attack from him, nuclear or not, will result in other countries joining a fight against us. This realization may have dawned on both Koreas and be part of the explanation why they started to talk.
01-14-2018 , 05:57 PM
Flake to evoke Stalin in Senate speech slamming Trump’s attacks on media: report
“2017 was a year which saw the truth — objective, empirical, evidence-based truth —more battered and abused than any other time in the history of our country, at the hands of the most powerful figure in our government,” Flake will say in his speech, according to excerpts obtained by NBC News.

...

"Mr. President, it is a testament to the condition of our democracy that our own president uses words infamously spoken by Josef Stalin to describe his enemies," Flake plans to say in the Senate remarks.

"It bears noting that so fraught with malice was the phrase 'enemy of the people,' that even (later Soviet leader) Nikita Khrushchev forbad its use, telling the Soviet Communist Party that the phrase had been introduced by Stalin to for the purpose of 'annihilating such individuals' who disagreed with the supreme leader," Flake will say.
so is flake gonna give us a history lesson or do something about it?
01-14-2018 , 06:01 PM
Sklansky thought the default position was that the world would stand with NK lol. They’re one of the few countries still below the US on the totem pole.
01-14-2018 , 06:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScreaminAsian
Flake to evoke Stalin in Senate speech slamming Trump’s attacks on media: report
“2017 was a year which saw the truth — objective, empirical, evidence-based truth —more battered and abused than any other time in the history of our country, at the hands of the most powerful figure in our government,” Flake will say in his speech, according to excerpts obtained by NBC News.

...

"Mr. President, it is a testament to the condition of our democracy that our own president uses words infamously spoken by Josef Stalin to describe his enemies," Flake plans to say in the Senate remarks.

"It bears noting that so fraught with malice was the phrase 'enemy of the people,' that even (later Soviet leader) Nikita Khrushchev forbad its use, telling the Soviet Communist Party that the phrase had been introduced by Stalin to for the purpose of 'annihilating such individuals' who disagreed with the supreme leader," Flake will say.
so is flake gonna give us a history lesson or do something about it?
No way does he think Trumpers are going to be won over by this or that Trump will be convinced that his attacks on the free press are immoral.

It's nothing more than Republican tokenism.
01-14-2018 , 06:35 PM
on one level it reads like, "this language is problematic, actually dictators have used those words as a basis for mass murder". yeah he knows what he's doing, stop him from following through don't just point it out
01-14-2018 , 06:40 PM
Jeff Flake seriously thinks he gets credit?

He voted for ALL OF IT

****ing douchebag
01-14-2018 , 06:50 PM
US set to cut UN money for Palestinian refugees
WASHINGTON (AP) — The Trump administration is preparing to withhold tens of millions of dollars from the U.N. agency for Palestinian refugees, cutting the year’s first contribution by more than half or perhaps entirely, and making additional donations contingent on major changes to the organization, according to U.S. officials.
01-14-2018 , 07:08 PM
Looks like Flake is trying to get on the right side of history following the words speak louder than actions path and hoping that no one remembers he was a complacent coward.
01-14-2018 , 07:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hold'em 07
Looks like Flake is trying to get on the right side of history following the words speak louder than actions path and hoping that no one remembers he was a complacent coward.
He's pulling a McCain.
01-14-2018 , 07:41 PM
Flake also knows the more and more Trump shows how racist he is, the harder it is to gain votes outside the deplorables. He probably wants Trump to get primaried in 2020 and is sowing the seeds.
01-14-2018 , 07:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matty Lice
Flake also knows the more and more Trump shows how racist he is, the harder it is to gain votes outside the deplorables. He probably wants Trump to get primaried in 2020 and is sowing the seeds.
He's gotta be on the short list of prominent Republicans who could try: Kasich, Flake, Corker, Romney?

The key is just one of them trying, not splitting up the non-deplorable vote again.
01-14-2018 , 08:03 PM
01-14-2018 , 09:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hold'em 07
Looks like Flake is trying to get on the right side of history following the words speak louder than actions path and hoping that no one remembers he was a complacent coward.
No, Flake is trying to get on the right side of the 2020 GOP nomination.
01-14-2018 , 09:44 PM
Seems like the deplorable wing is very motivated to turn out for GOP primaries. Bashing Trump will only put him on the right side in 2020 if turnout is through the roof.
01-14-2018 , 09:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cuserounder
He's gotta be on the short list of prominent Republicans who could try: Kasich, Flake, Corker, Romney?

The key is just one of them trying, not splitting up the non-deplorable vote again.
Yeah right, if Trump is still president in 2020 (a big if) no way he loses a primary. Way more than 50 percent of republican primary voters are deplorable.
01-14-2018 , 09:52 PM
01-14-2018 , 09:53 PM
Yea the deplorable vote in the primary in 2016 is the reason Trump is POTUS today.

      
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