They put up memorials to the victims, not statues of the oppressors.

As a descendant of a loyalist I don't understand why the US has this infatuation with the founding fathers (they did come up with a decent constitution), but some tricked the people into thinking the British were imposing huge taxes on tea for the Americans as they just wanted power for themselves/ were merchants who didn't like the British plan to cut their profits, others were opportunists who knew which side would win and attempted to get on the right side of history and influence the future of the country for the better. The mobs chased those loyal to Britain out of the country with torches, murders, rape and beatings after they beat Britain's 5th rate army as the British were involved in many wars at the same time, most much more important.

The family and I took a tour of seven presidential homes and libraries this summer.

I had been to Monticello in the mid nineties and they basically treated it as if Jefferson probably had slaves but didn't really want them. They now have an entire tour dedicated to the slave quarters and the living conditions of the slaves. But they play off the raping as more of a love story. A man who lived 50 years after his wife died that never remarried because of his strong forbidden relationship with a slave.

yeah, you can see their tactics play out. "oh you think russia is so bad? this country needs a reminder that it's not so innocent"

he definitely tried to move on her

I was held up in jury duty all day today. What did I miss?

Did it happen to go anything like this?

https://harpers.org/archive/2017/09/public-enemy/


Brief Excerpt:

CREAM motha ****er!!!!

Is this real? Seems way too absurd to be true.

so awesome. this guy ****s!

You are insulting George Wallace


http://www.nytimes.com/1998/09/16/op...e-wallace.html

And even before he came to his senses it is unlikely he would have condoned slavery.

And to reiterate: condoning slavery when you know its wrong, just to make money, means that someone who kills you to free a slave is doing the right thing. Any founding father whose murder was morally justifiable should not be revered regardless of his other accomplishments.

They start teaching the presidents in kindergarten

Actually think this would be a good (secret?) tactic for conservatives; there's very few who would understand / sympathize with the rationale that they were slavers ergo don't deserve parks / statues, then conservatives could conjoin efforts to remove / rename confederate stuff with efforts to remove Washington / Jefferson stuff and gain some support outside of their drooling core.

Ford and Lindbergh were noted anti-semites during periods of their lives. Shockey was Hitler-lite. I don't think the point you're trying to make is a very good one since none of these guys you listed are people to be celebrated. lol

I am deleting that ambiguous point.

Seems about right.

I mean, Shockley never owned slaves. His research helped fight the Nazis. He had abhorrent views, but there's a far better case for a Shockley memorial than a Jefferson memorial (not that I think there should be one).

I think DS's point here is that we normally regard Shockley as an important scientist who did great research but we also recognize that he was kind of a ****ty person in a lot of ways, which is probably how we ought to regard guys like Jefferson rather than deifying them and making them into quasi-mythical figures.

Here we go with the fakes...

https://twitter.com/AP/status/897880913031385093

It should be noted that Washington partially redeemed himself but Jefferson didn't.

Yeah many of the founding fathers were slave owners and racists. Honestly there should be a bit of a re-examining of them, but the "America is the greatest country in the universe!" crowd gets sensitive about stuff like that.

I need a vacation from Trump's vacation.

Shockey was a eugenicist. I vaguely remembered something about that and had to look it up. Instead of sending people to the oven he would just breed people out of existence. It may be more polite, but I don't think Jefferson or Washington wanted to exterminate who they saw as inferiors (slaves).

Enslaving living people is even worse than exterminating yet to be born people,

In both cases you have taken away freedom from individuals. Women have been forcefully sterilized all throughout the world because of those sorts of beliefs. For a guy who loves logic, you might want to think about these sort of things more thoroughly.

$5bn wiped off the value of Amazon after Trump tweet, this real life?