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The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: No smocking guns. The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: No smocking guns.

08-13-2017 , 10:13 AM
I think I kind of had a tiny doubt that trump wasn't an actual white supremacist until yesterday. But with Bannon and Miller on staff and his comments yesterday there can be no doubt anymore. He is a card carrying white supremacist.
08-13-2017 , 10:19 AM
fox news sunday, Fox premier hard news program, discusses benghazi and unmasking before charlottesville is mentioned.
08-13-2017 , 10:34 AM
If we've learned anything about Trump, he will double and triple down on his "both sides" comment. It's so sick to think that their might be an external conversation with Bannon, et all, to not denounce white supremacists because they are the base.
08-13-2017 , 10:55 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JPantz
If we've learned anything about Trump, he will double and triple down on his "both sides" comment. It's so sick to think that their might be an external conversation with Bannon, et all, to not denounce white supremacists because they are the base.
It's not a political decision to not denounce them. It's because they agree with them to their core.
08-13-2017 , 11:32 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ligastar
let's hope that a group gathers all the facial pix of the nazis protesting today (i saw many of them hid behind glasses and helmets and similar). then crowdsource/share with the public to research and ID them. then put pressure on their employees to fire them. financially strangle these rasicts.
I'm happy to report this is being done. One confirmed firing so far. Hopefully several more firings to follow.

https://twitter.com/YesYoureRacist
08-13-2017 , 12:09 PM
https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/m...t-with-the-kkk

Looks like Fred Trump, Fat Donny's poppy, was arrested at a clan rally in NYC during the roaring 20's. History seems to support that the sitting POTUS's father was a robe wearing clansman. It is inconceivable to me this stinking piece of filth was elected. It also makes sense why he isn't condemning the actions of the hatemongers in Charlottesville.
08-13-2017 , 12:10 PM
Trump will never bash the people who are the biggest reason he got elected. He's not THAT dumb.

Last edited by wheatrich; 08-13-2017 at 12:19 PM.
08-13-2017 , 12:22 PM
Pretty sure Ole Fred also got nailed by numerous government entities for not renting to black people; dude was a less successful Donald Sterling.
08-13-2017 , 12:26 PM
Normally anti campaigns are kind of corny. That's not bad though

Quote:
So, what was this secret method, this anti-nazi repellent that made them go away?

It was mockery.

There is a German initiative called EXIT that aims to help nazis quit the scene and stop being nazis. Apart from providing help and counseling, they also try to actively reach out to nazis. One way they do it is through humor.

One time they made black t-shirts with some sort of German nationalistic imagery on the front. A skull with the word “national rebels” or whatever. They passed these out for free at nazi rock concerts. But the nazis who took their new shirts home and washed them had to witness them losing their color and their artwork and turning out white with a logo that said: “if your shirt can change, so can you.” They were trojan shirts.
https://thelongestway.com/2017/04/08...ke-the-antifa/
08-13-2017 , 12:55 PM
Over in alt-right land yesterday was a false flag.
08-13-2017 , 01:06 PM
Mooch: "The president has to move away from that sort of Bannon-bart nonsense. Yeah that whole thing is nonsensical".

true but still lol
08-13-2017 , 01:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clovis8
I think I kind of had a tiny doubt that trump wasn't an actual white supremacist until yesterday. But with Bannon and Miller on staff and his comments yesterday there can be no doubt anymore. He is a card carrying white supremacist.
It's a very consistent picture going back to the dominating father in whose footsteps he followed having been just like those alt-righters at the rally. (He was arrested at a KKK rally/riot)
08-13-2017 , 01:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by aflametotheground
Mooch: "The president has to move away from that sort of Bannon-bart nonsense. Yeah that whole thing is nonsensical".

true but still lol
All the advice for Trump to act more presidential is understandable coming from Republicans. It's bad from everyone else though.

Trump saying and tweeting the right thing is not good for the world. He's still Trump.
08-13-2017 , 02:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by wheatrich
Trump will never bash the people who are the biggest reason he got elected. He's not THAT dumb.
Well it wasn't very stupid.
08-13-2017 , 02:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by microbet
All the advice for Trump to act more presidential is understandable coming from Republicans. It's bad from everyone else though.

Trump saying and tweeting the right thing is not good for the world. He's still Trump.
Given he is simply too stupid and racist to do the right thing I'm not too worried.
08-13-2017 , 04:15 PM
We know the fix is in. But how much fixin'? Here's a tl;dr post featuring some of the unproven assumptions & a few respective examples that have so much supporting evidence, we can assume they're true in nearly every case (the extremely rare exceptions include willful deceit or the last resort to repay a favor):

1) Government employees are hired, attacked/humiliated, or fired for a different reason than pushed on the public. Ex: Flynn, Comey, Mooch, Sessions.

2) Trump is helping monsters advance their interests. Ex: Nazis, Russia, Kim Jong-Un.

3) There is no flaw Trump won't exploit, regardless of how petty. Ex: Using charity funds to pay for things like both his son's $7 Scout fee and $20,000 self portraits to hang at Trump properties.

4) Violating national security to enemies is commonplace, not just with small stuff, but top level dangers as well. Unknown content for 3 Putin hours at the G20 is HORRIBLE! Ex: Russians in the Oval Office, Duterte, WikiLeaks.

5) The Trump family and business comes first, not America. Ex: China "choosing" to help Trump and hurt the US with NK, visiting and striking deals with the despised Muslim Saudis before going to any other countries.

6) The more someone struggles to avoid the public eye, the higher the chance they handle upper level covert nefarious operations. Ex: Jared Kushner, Steve Bannon, Rex Tillerson, Jefferson Beauregard Sessions.

7) Trump is purposely trying to weaken or destroy America for Putin. Ex: Spreading the military thin on increasingly tense situations with more and more Authoritarian Putin allies, spreading our trust thin on the interests of Democratic Putin enemies, tearing down values and norms and laws behind 250 years of US Democracy.

8) The anti-American actions in #7 are deliberate and coordinated because that is their goal, not incompetent and inexperienced because they're failing at governing. Ex: The government not understanding climate change. Failure to speak up against dark beliefs of the base and passing them off as an oversight each time.

9) Aside from the entire administration as a whole in #8, Trump is an idiot enough of the time, and sinisterly clever enough of the time, that the resulting smokescreen accomplishes what other smokescreen do. Ex: Trump lashing out "impulsively" on Twitter (towards strategically correct opponents, at strategically correct news moments, with plenty of time between tweets).

10) As Putin holds Trump at his mercy, Trump undoubtedly holds moves in his pocket to use against Robert Mueller should he get closer to the truth, and even more extreme Putin-backed measures if Trump learns of inevitable impeachment or indictments. Ex: Let your imagination run here, because it's so incredibly hard to come across direct evidence of treasonous talks, especially that G20 Putin hour with zero US witnesses. But it's not that difficult to see the potential for Putin to access Russian (cyber)knowledge of things like power outages, sonic deafening, nuclear equipment, etc. to hold individual or groups of Americans hostage, using voter/other data passed to him - willingly or unwillingly - by Trump and others.

Some of this sounds far fetched, I know. And for a normal administration it would be. But when, instead of using recall, you grab a full list of where we are now compared to January 20th and what's become public about Trump's methods of cheating at every possible turn, we realize how far fetched things have already been in just 7 months.

Until lots of unknown details are revealed, the prospects will remain terrifying and the fear alone is both limiting and justified. As with Putin (so much is), we have no evidence that Trump's limitations are are moral, ethical or legal in any way. It's simply a matter of importance, revolving around the penalty of consequences rather than ideology.

We also have a pressing need to move faster. Trump exploits everything, including the time gap between his actions and when he might be held accountable. If we can't speed up, we can't prevent a point of no return. Which brings us to Mueller, State AGs, and other investigations...

1 through 9 help the Feds. 10 hurts, badly. Indictments are most likely the only thing standing between a US revoltion, then a full on conflict with Russia. I'm not even convinced that impeachment will solve this anymore. They've had enough time and access to create a Trumpless contingency. With Trump gone, the astounding number of Russian strings left to pull would...astound...all of us.

That said, also use some imagination for the kind of planning that can be done when your time is largely spent on bad intentions and little on actual governing. Even being a fly on the wall of the main Trump/Manafort discussions during the campaign would be incredibly revealing. Think of how Trump bragged about only needing a staff of 71 vs Clinton's campaign staff of 800. The same goes for now, with an empty State Department, emptying Homeland Security and NSA, and lean overall staff. The public reason is Trump's amazing efficiency. But the real reason (as in #1 above) is different. When you're faking legitimacy, bad actors need more trust and loyalty than they do specified knowledge and competence, which leads us to the cabinet...

A few weeks ago, I got stuck fending off a slew of posters over claims that lots of street smart people work for Trump's government. Within the context of this post, let me elaborate a little. It's very easy to look dumb when you're a public official in the wrong department for the public, or when you're stuck defending indefensible comments and actions. All you need to do is keep in mind that Trump's hiring practices purposefully had different requirements. His staffing priorities were focused on rich & powerful crooks he personally knows will play evil ball to get richer and more powerful. They are competent...at making illicit money, avoiding scrutiny, getting out of tough implications against them, and Trump's style of bull****ting. And that's good enough when someone is pulling global strings on Trump's behalf. For (a 60% likely hypothetical IMO) example, how much do you need experts to diffuse a North Korean crisis if the current escalated situation were set up by its neighbors - sayyyy Russia with China's help? I'm not saying they own Trump enough or are smart or deceptive enough to pull it off, but they do and they are. Remember that Trump's rhetoric shot up Tuesday, after learning (lol) about mini nukes from one (lol) department of his trusted (lol) Intelligence Community. The theory is nothing conclusive, but definitely worth watching more closely than usual.

Trump's biggest governing concern is defying Putin, which makes complete sense when looking at the available facts. There could be a lot of reasons for it, but absent classified Team Mueller info, I prefer mine for now. If we could somehow even pause these guys from taking increasingly aggressive actions, it might allow all of us a chance to catch up on this HUGE story instead of the huge smokescreen.

CLIFFS: Approach Team Trump from the perspective that everything they do is public deception for both big & small scams and you will be SHOCKED at the difficulty of proving it wrong.
08-13-2017 , 04:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clovis8
I think I kind of had a tiny doubt that trump wasn't an actual white supremacist until yesterday. But with Bannon and Miller on staff and his comments yesterday there can be no doubt anymore. He is a card carrying white supremacist.
Their votes in Republican primaries are the only thing standing between Trump and impeachment with a side of life in prison.
08-13-2017 , 04:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ligastar
I'm happy to report this is being done. One confirmed firing so far. Hopefully several more firings to follow.

https://twitter.com/YesYoureRacist
Heh, post from the Trump's America thread, a few days before the attack.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Our House
There's a phrase that really bothers me, which is being said IRL so much more often than before...

"I'm not a racist, but..."

These people feel so much more emboldened now. Thanks Donald!
08-13-2017 , 04:35 PM
Addendum: Trump makes sure to get many stances on video for each topic. Then, whenever a situation comes up later, he gets to point to the publicly documented stance that makes him look the best.

Hypocrisy is a given with this guy. It sucks that normalization for this is out of our control, but at least it's great for comedy.
08-13-2017 , 04:41 PM
Your last long post was pretty much the definition of an image of a ton of sticky notes on your wall with a lot of red string connecting various items. Even you admit some might be a tad far fetched.

Ignoring the actual politics of your opinions (because debating with zealots is fairly meaningless in general), I am curious if you ever wonder or are concerned that you lose "regular" people when you present your ideas in such a manifesto like format. Don't get me wrong, I found your post to be entertaining, and you clearly put a lot of genuine thought and energy into it, but it is hard to take it that seriously as a casual reader of this thread because of the general out there nature of it, regardless of your underlying passion.

Oddly enough I am not criticizing the actual content, because again one can see you put a lot of thought and energy into your beliefs, and they are quite genuine, but I do wonder what percentage of you posts like that as a form of venting and what percentage of you posts like that as a form of attempted persuasion of others toward your beliefs. If the bulk of your effort is in the latter, can you see how your approach might lose many people who are hardly supporters of Trump?

Thanks in advance.
08-13-2017 , 04:51 PM
A thought:

If nobody is going to win against Trump in the public opinion domain, is there a way to split his base more often? Yesterday is an example. Trumpcare was an example. What positive things can we do to lower his popularity?
08-13-2017 , 04:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clovis8
I think I kind of had a tiny doubt that trump wasn't an actual white supremacist until yesterday. But with Bannon and Miller on staff and his comments yesterday there can be no doubt anymore. He is a card carrying white supremacist.
He himself has said he's a proponent of genetic supremacy. It was in relation to him, not white people, being "better" than others. But, he's also had claims following him forever about being racist against black people. Katt Williams' comment about Whitney and crack is appropriate for what conclusion you should draw about Trump and racism.

Quote:
"If a mutha ****a call you a crackhead for 20 years, b**** you are smoking crack! Whitney done smoked her kneecaps off, and we still like "Nuh UH!"

Last edited by Thug Bubbles; 08-13-2017 at 05:03 PM.
08-13-2017 , 05:06 PM
08-13-2017 , 05:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Monteroy
Your last long post was pretty much the definition of an image of a ton of sticky notes on your wall with a lot of red string connecting various items. Even you admit some might be a tad far fetched.

Ignoring the actual politics of your opinions (because debating with zealots is fairly meaningless in general), I am curious if you ever wonder or are concerned that you lose "regular" people when you present your ideas in such a manifesto like format. Don't get me wrong, I found your post to be entertaining, and you clearly put a lot of genuine thought and energy into it, but it is hard to take it that seriously as a casual reader of this thread because of the general out there nature of it, regardless of your underlying passion.

Oddly enough I am not criticizing the actual content, because again one can see you put a lot of thought and energy into your beliefs, and they are quite genuine, but I do wonder what percentage of you posts like that as a form of venting and what percentage of you posts like that as a form of attempted persuasion of others toward your beliefs. If the bulk of your effort is in the latter, can you see how your approach might lose many people who are hardly supporters of Trump?

Thanks in advance.
It has to do with the way you read it. The post isn't meant to be a Mueller investigation legal indictment of Trump. It's a thought process that lacks the specifics to do that sort of thing because they're not publicly available yet.

Losing casual readers? Of course not. A person not interested enough to entertain the ideas of that post is also not interested in reading other equally long 100% fact sheets of Trump's malice. Most anti-Trumpers I've had conversations with IRL care much more about 2 scoops of ice cream than anything policy related that doesn't directly affect them.

Start slowly if you want, but I promise you the more you accumulate facts about this menace to society the more you will start to see Russia everywhere. The truth is, Russia IS everywhere...eveywhere Trump goes at least. They're far from limited to 2016 election "interference", to minimize the statement a great deal.

One other thing: I talk about TrumpRussia knowledge from an elitist perspective, though it's not to brag. Of all the facts out there I estimate knowing about 20% of the details. Reliable people who know a lot more than I do, like Malcolm Nance or David Cay Johnston or Rachel Maddow are all even more concerned than I am. Take that FWIW.
08-13-2017 , 05:12 PM
i'd prefer you cite some of your claims tho. because it does kinda read like you're out of your mind even though i agree with the points you're making

      
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