The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: No smocking guns. - Page 1960 - Politics and Economics

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The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: No smocking guns.

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07-29-2017 , 01:12 AM

#48976

It's Brandt

old hand

Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 1,625

Quote:

Originally Posted by poconoder

this personnel turnover is expected. Most new presidents get people from the last admin of their party. But Trump was not in sync with GWB admin personnel. So he got people from his campaign to serve. But campaigning and governing is different. So you watch and see which ones excel at governing and get rid of the those that don't. We've had 6 months to observe who is doing well and with more time it will get easier to pick those good at governing. the quality of the Trump admin personnel will improve much over time, just as it did for previous new presidents.

Yeah, should really be smooth sailing from here on out.

07-29-2017 , 01:17 AM

#48977

revots33

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 13,475

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChrisV

Thinking about this more, I'd divide the right into four major groups, obviously there's overlap between all of these, but:

The "Intellectual" Right: Also called the GOPe, although they power-share that with evangelical types a bit. Neocons, National Review types, Evan McMullin, John Kasich, Jeb Bush, Paul Ryan etc.

The Evangelical Right: Huckabee, Santorum and so on. Usually obsessed with social policy. I'd put Sessions in this category as well.

The Macho Right: The guys for whom the answer to everything is masculinity, dominance and a total lack of empathy. Trump is in this category, to the extent that he has any political beliefs. Also creeps like Sheriff Joe, Steve Bannon, etc.

The Conspiracy Right: Deep State haters, frothing Ron Paulers and Audit The Fed types, Alex Jones, Pizzagaters, Oathkeepers, militias, Alex Wice etc etc. Trump fooled these people into thinking he was one of them by constantly ranting about "fake news" and stolen elections and such. The difference between Trump and this faction is that Trump doesn't have any actual beliefs, whereas the Conspiracy Right have very intensely held and typically crazy beliefs. The anti-war right are all in this group.

There's a fair bit of overlap between those last two groups and they're collectively called the "alt-right". They share a disdain for civilizational norms and the establishment, but they differ on areas where the conspiracy types tend more libertarian - the conspiracists are usually isolationist and suspicious of the government, whereas the macho types see the government as an instrument to crush their enemies, foreign and domestic.

And obviously, if you look for issues which unite all four, what we get is: shafting minorities, lowering taxes, liberal tears.

:thumbup:

excellent post

07-29-2017 , 01:20 AM

#48978

wheatrich

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 21,405

Quote:

Originally Posted by suzzer99

Apparently @RoguePOTUSStaff is very likely some kind of Breitbart/Russia disinformation account.

the immigration one (the alt_uscis one) they tried to find out who that was via the courts but didn't for that one. It's a good sign it's not b/c if it's legit it appears we're completely doomed.

I wasn't following any alt account before it came out in the courts; so it was nice of the trump team for telling me who to follow on immigration issues.

07-29-2017 , 02:01 AM

#48979

suzzer99

Save the Cheerleader, Save the World

Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 100,229

Quote:

Originally Posted by It's Brandt

Yeah, should really be smooth sailing from here on out.

I think we all remember when Obama's Communication Director called the WH Chief of Staff a paranoiac and accused the WH Chief Strategist of sucking his own dick.

Boys will be boys.

07-29-2017 , 02:05 AM

#48980

jmakin

banned

Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 30,120

Quote:

Originally Posted by poconoder

No one can possibly be this deluded

07-29-2017 , 02:07 AM

#48981

suzzer99

Save the Cheerleader, Save the World

Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 100,229

Do I need to send you over to chiefsplanet?

07-29-2017 , 02:08 AM

#48982

bigt2k4

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 15,296

Quote:

Originally Posted by Our House

Apparently we're just recently learning about a very possible 2015 Putin murder in Washington, on US soil.

His media czar, Lesin, "accidentally" died of a multitude of battering and bruising the night before he was scheduled to testify with the DOJ.

Now, this was being downplayed by the government. But did the gang of 8 (McConnell, Rubio, who was hacked by Russia, and 6 others) know about it? If they did, was McConnell aware of this, or anything else Russia, when he threatened Obama not to go public with the election hacking PSI? And lastly, if other GOP learned about this through the party leaders or the RNC, how intimidated are they feeling?

https://twitter.com/SchoofsFeed/stat...65095349702656

In a vaccuum this should be huge news, but given what I know about Russia I think him not being murdered would be far bigger news

07-29-2017 , 02:13 AM

#48983

suzzer99

Save the Cheerleader, Save the World

Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 100,229

Him murdered on US soil, and we knew it and looked the other way, seems like a very big deal.

I mean let's say Putin gets desperate and decides the only way to accomplish his goals is to stage a terrorist on US soil. Yes it's a big leap, but if he's already killing with impunity on US soil...

You want to turn this country into an oligarchy overnight? Do an Orlando attack but in a white church instead of a gay Latino nightclub. 50-100 dead god-fearing men, women and children - mowed down while trying to worship. We wake up to a completely different country.

Scary stuff.

07-29-2017 , 02:46 AM

#48984

OmgGlutten!

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Aug 2016 Posts: 5,273

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChrisV

The "Macho" category does not really exist. It is just another part of the Conspiracy category.

07-29-2017 , 03:06 AM

#48985

microbet

Solar Powered

Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 57,105

I think the macho/patriarchy is a real thing and is more aptly called authoritarianism than conspiracy theory.

The intellectual right is pretty authoritarian as well, at least in practice. The underlying philosophy, such as it is, may seem individualistic (Ayn Rand/Neitzche), but it's anti-egalitarian. Milton Friedman and Henry Kissinger were setting up dictatorships. It's anti-democratic like The Heritage Foundation and founder Paul Weyrich (see below).

Not all conservatives may directly call for military involvement, but the Ur-Fascist (remember einbert) love of action for action sake and the fear of disorder and of others and the fear of loss of power head towards a fetish for police and military and towards their overuse.

What is being conserved for conservatives and the right? ..... Traditional power structure. That's what's real and consistent. I mean, look at "The Evangelical Right". It's a complete sham from the Business Gospel, to Jim and Tammy Baker, to people talking about how God is guiding Trump's hand.

Last edited by microbet; 07-29-2017 at 03:24 AM.

07-29-2017 , 03:19 AM

#48986

valenzuela

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Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 28,120

The macho thing is super real. It moves politics way more than you think at first glance.

Obama also offers a leadership based on ideals of masculinity but he offers a more smooth and chilled type which is associated to important urban centers.
Trump offers a masculinity that is more primitive and vulgar which is more associated with smaller towns and the rural world.

Gender theory explains a lot of what happens in politics.

07-29-2017 , 03:29 AM

#48987

Our House

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 28,109

Quote:

Originally Posted by uDevil

It was a big story at the time. If I knew about it, all those people and many posters here also did.

Edit: ok, not at the time, but late October before the election is likely when I read NPR stories covering it.

The more I think about it, the more I don't like this murder story one bit. It's looking like a Trojan horse.

I can't figure out why the FBI and the DC Police covered up the murder all this time. It smells funny, like the one thing out of place in the whole US-Russia story.

07-29-2017 , 03:31 AM

#48988

Our House

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 28,109

Don't forget that the best thing for an authoritarian takeover is chaos. Are we seeing chaos anywhere?

(In before Littlefinger/Varys ChaosIsALadder.avi)

07-29-2017 , 03:39 AM

#48989

microbet

Solar Powered

Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 57,105

Quote:

Originally Posted by valenzuela

The macho thing is super real. It moves politics way more than you think at first glance.

Obama also offers a leadership based on ideals of masculinity but he offers a more smooth and chilled type which is associated to important urban centers.
Trump offers a masculinity that is more primitive and vulgar which is more associated with smaller towns and the rural world.

Gender theory explains a lot of what happens in politics.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jineology

Quote:

The extent to which society can be thoroughly transformed is determined by the extent of the transformation attained by women. Similarly, the level of woman’s freedom and equality determines the freedom and equality of all sections of society. . . . For a democratic nation, woman’s freedom is of great importance too, as liberated woman constitutes liberated society. Liberated society in turn constitutes democratic nation. Moreover, the need to reverse the role of man is of revolutionary importance.

07-29-2017 , 03:47 AM

#48990

Our House

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 28,109

https://twitter.com/thehill/status/891189302318727168

Man, Trump humiliated his Chief of Staff in private too.

Quote:

The official told the Post that Trump's complaints about Priebus had ramped up in recent weeks.

"It reached a fever pitch of the president complaining about Reince to all of us," the official said. "If we heard it once, we heard it 20 times in the last week - this erosion of confidence. The word was 'weak' - 'weak,' 'weak,' 'weak.' 'Can't get it done.'"

07-29-2017 , 04:12 AM

#48991

ChrisV

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 40,336

Quote:

Originally Posted by OmgGlutten!

The "Macho" category does not really exist. It is just another part of the Conspiracy category.

It's a bit arbitrary how you slice it up and really rather than groups they are like dimensions of the right-wing personality that people can score higher or lower on. However, it's kind of crazy to me that you can say that "Macho" doesn't really exist, I'd call it one of the defining traits of the modern GOP, and certainly of Trumpism. Look at the post directly above this one, where what Trump doesn't like about Priebus is that he's "weak". This is a common right-wing insult along with cuck, snowflake, complaining about "safe spaces" etc. There's threatening to beat up protesters and "grab them by the pussy" (just locker room talk ldo). There's the gun fetishism. The worship of law enforcement and especially the military. "Drill baby drill" and coal rolling. I don't know how you explain any of this without reference to masculine posturing. I'd also say that Trump's tough guy posturing is what a lot of his fans like about him.

It's not normal for the Right to be like that in a prosperous democracy. If you look at the UK for example, none of the above is really a thing. Their Trump-esque figure, Boris Johnson, is not anything like as masculine and dominance seeking as Trump. The erstwhile leader of their anti-immigration party, Nigel Farage, is a ponce.

07-29-2017 , 04:17 AM

#48992

Our House

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 28,109

Consider this...

While everyone else is dealing with a million crazy issues, Trump and Mooch* spend most of their time working together with top loyalists on a plot to get out of this mess. It's a must-do obsession. Trump has all the government agencies at his disposal except a couple, and has shown he doesn't care what it takes to get his way.

Meanwhile, Robert Mueller and his team are watching their movements without distractions. The minute they see that Trump is ready to put a takeover into play, they MUST alert law enforcement (FBI) and we have a big big problem.

This **** is coming to a head earlier than expected. Trump will not let them discover/expose several of the horrible things he's hiding. ThingS plural, because I 100% believe he and loads of people around him are into many illegal activities, by choice or otherwise.

*Mooch got called in because somebody decided that EVEN TRUMP wasn't pushing envelopes and eroding our Democracy fast enough.

07-29-2017 , 04:30 AM

#48993

Our House

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 28,109

Speaking of dilemmas, once Putin decides that Trump has become a liability in need of execution, will that make him an enemy or a hero?

07-29-2017 , 06:53 AM

#48994

Our House

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 28,109

Heh. Well, Mueller does have RICO lawyers working with his SC group.

https://twitter.com/ZombieManifesto/...01854884659201

07-29-2017 , 07:00 AM

#48995

+rep_lol

banned

Join Date: Sep 2013 Posts: 14,900

Quote:

Originally Posted by pk_nuts

Quote:

Originally Posted by poconoder

Этот кадровый оборот ожидается. Большинство новых президентов получают людей от последнего администратора своей партии. Но Трамп не был синхронизирован с персоналом GWB-администратора. Поэтому он получил людей от своей кампании, чтобы служить. Но агитация и управление разные. Итак, вы смотрите и видите, какие из них преуспевают в управлении и избавляются от тех, кто этого не делает. У нас было 6 месяцев, чтобы наблюдать, кто преуспевает, и с большим количеством времени ему станет легче выбирать тех, кто умеет управлять. Качество персонала администрации Trump со временем будет значительно улучшаться, как это было и для предыдущих новых президентов.
Etot kadrovyy oborot ozhidayetsya. Bol'shinstvo novykh prezidentov poluchayut lyudey ot poslednego administratora svoyey partii. No Tramp ne byl sinkhronizirovan s personalom GWB-administratora. Poetomu on poluchil lyudey ot svoyey kampanii, chtoby sluzhit'. No agitatsiya i upravleniye raznyye. Itak, vy smotrite i vidite, kakiye iz nikh preuspevayut v upravlenii i izbavlyayutsya ot tekh, kto etogo ne delayet. U nas bylo 6 mesyatsev, chtoby nablyudat', kto preuspevayet, i s bol'shim kolichestvom vremeni yemu stanet legche vybirat' tekh, kto umeyet upravlyat'. Kachestvo personala administratsii Trump so vremenem budet znachitel'no uluchshat'sya, kak eto bylo i dlya predydushchikh novykh prezidentov.

FYP

07-29-2017 , 08:15 AM

#48996

eyebooger

Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 59,272

Anyone want to tell this guy that he just lost a vote 49-51?

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/...57113565163520
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/...59245106278400
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/...60230876659713
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/...61878005092353

07-29-2017 , 08:19 AM

#48997

poconoder

journeyman

Join Date: Jan 2017 Posts: 370

Quote:

Originally Posted by suzzer99

Do I need to send you over to chiefsplanet?

if you combined the threads from chiefsplanet and 2+2 you'd have a discussion that reflects American opinion in general, with lots of extremes and a little bit of moderates in the middle.

07-29-2017 , 08:19 AM

#48998

ChrisV

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Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 40,336

Just spoke to someone who works moderately high up in Australian sigint. They said they spoke to a US four-star general who said Trump is constantly calling whichever intel organization it is. The general said their boss (again, whoever that is) is basically living in the White House. Good to know Trump is taking advice from someone other than Fox & Friends.

07-29-2017 , 08:20 AM

#48999

epcfast

veteran

Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 2,535

Get Smart!

07-29-2017 , 08:21 AM

#49000

mosdef

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 11,290

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChrisV

It's kind of inevitable that if you bucket a large group into a handful of categories that there will be imperfections. That exercise is an inherently a simplifying intellectual framework. I tend to agree with your observation that there is a significant masculine posturing element to the Trump wing of the party. Is it a defining characteristic or just a trait? Probably not much point in debating that.

It's interesting how the American right can try to legitimize itself in different ways. On the one hand, you can try to have a refined and, frankly, effeminate type like Buckley as a symbol. That's a way to make right wing ideas feel like part of the normal discourse of the high-thinking establishment. Alternatively, you can have an Eastwood type, pushing conservatism as real Americanism, before the wimps ruined America. The second approach naturally comes with a healthy dose of masculine posturing.

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