Open Side Menu Go to the Top
Register
The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: No smocking guns. The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: No smocking guns.

07-20-2017 , 10:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by champstark
I think the **** with the taxes is really just that he's a lot poorer than he says and he really doesn't people to know. There's no Russia stuff or any smoking gun in there, just ego deflation.
Why would he care about Mueller seeing them in that case? He's not going to publicly release them.
07-20-2017 , 10:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobman0330
Why would he care about Mueller seeing them in that case? He's not going to publicly release them.
This, I think:

Quote:
Originally Posted by champstark
ego deflation.
07-20-2017 , 10:55 PM
Can Trump even fire Mueller? Doesn't Rosenstein have to do it? Trump can only fire Rosenstein right? And then his replacement would have to be confirmed by the Senate?
07-20-2017 , 10:57 PM
BTW, no one seems to have mentioned that the spokesperson for Trump's outside legal team resigned tonight. http://www.politico.com/story/2017/0...tarting-240783
07-20-2017 , 10:58 PM
"I sell real estate to anyone who buys it. Who wouldn't? Does Target ask how you got money to buy your groceries?"
07-20-2017 , 10:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by champstark
I think the **** with the taxes is really just that he's a lot poorer than he says and he really doesn't people to know. There's no Russia stuff or any smoking gun in there, just ego deflation.
There's little doubt Trump has been doing business with Russians for years or decades, despite what he's said. His kids loved bragging about it back before it mattered. Whether it shows up in his taxes or how nefarious the dealings are/were, remains to be seen.
07-20-2017 , 11:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chippa58
Firing Mueller could make sense if he was working on this alone, but obviously that's not close to correct. I would think there are at least two or three other people who are up to speed on everything to the same degree that Mueller is. So, its like what Comey said when he was fired. The work will go on. Firing Mueller would launch a ****storm, but I don't see it stopping the investigation which is Trump's ultimate intention.
Comey/Mueller was/are in totally different positions. If you fire the head of the FBI, somebody else takes the job and all business proceeds as before. If you fire Mueller the investigation is dead, and Congress or whoever else is forced to act to reopen it.
07-20-2017 , 11:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by m_reed05
Can Trump even fire Mueller? Doesn't Rosenstein have to do it? Trump can only fire Rosenstein right? And then his replacement would have to be confirmed by the Senate?
My understanding is only AG can fire, or Deputy AG if AG is recused, as is the case here. Rosenstein testified under oath that he would only fire Mueller for good cause (fairly high standard). So, basically, if Sessions won't fire Rosenstein, then Trump needs an AG that will, but that AG needs Senate confirmation, and GOP currently has 51 votes with McCain out, and I doubt they could get 35 to appoint a "loyal" Trump AG. So if Trump fires Sessions, then there's no AG and Mueller continues. (Not sure who would be acting AG and if they could fire Mueller.)
07-20-2017 , 11:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyWf
lol what on Earth could be in those tax returns that is that bad
Hey, maybe this is why we shouldn't give votes towards a candidate who won't release his tax returns. Maybe this is why we've been doing it that way for sixty ****ing years +.

Just ****ing maybe.


Butnahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhb
07-20-2017 , 11:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ecriture d'adulte
Comey/Mueller was/are in totally different positions. If you fire the head of the FBI, somebody else takes the job and all business proceeds as before. If you fire Mueller the investigation is dead, and Congress or whoever else is forced to act to reopen it.
Source? This could be possible, but it isn't my current understanding.

From p. 7 of report linked above, https://fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/R44857.pdf

"Termination of Independent Counsel Inquiries
The inquiry led by the independent counsel under the statute could be terminated under two methods. First, the statute directed that the office of the independent counsel would terminate upon notification by the independent counsel to the Attorney General that the investigation and any subsequent prosecutions had been completed.55 Second, the statute permitted the special division of the court—by its own choice or by the recommendation of the Attorney General—to terminate the office at any time if the investigation had been completed or sufficiently completed, allowing the DOJ to formally complete the inquiry under its own processes.56 In either case, the independent counsel was required to submit a report to the special division of the court detailing the work completed.57 The report was required to include “a description of the work of the independent counsel, including the disposition of all cases brought.”58

[This isn't explicit, but it suggests investigation would not end by removing special cousnel.]
07-20-2017 , 11:05 PM
I feel like if he pardons his children he has to be impeached. Really no wiggle room for the GOP there.
07-20-2017 , 11:05 PM
Reminder, this is all the baby boomers fault

WOAT ****ING POS GENERATION EVER
07-20-2017 , 11:08 PM
Trump has to be boiling inside, do we get the tweetstorm in the morning or do we have to wait until the weekend?
07-20-2017 , 11:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by champstark
I think the **** with the taxes is really just that he's a lot poorer than he says and he really doesn't people to know. There's no Russia stuff or any smoking gun in there, just ego deflation.
Not anymore. This dude is terrified of ANYBODY looking into any money involving him or his family. He has done some deeply illegal **** with his money. Like, super illegal.
07-20-2017 , 11:12 PM
As not a lawyer, I was wondering how Trump "undercuts" Mueller without obstructing justice.

https://twitter.com/EricHolder/statu...22773348360192
07-20-2017 , 11:15 PM
Who does Holder expect to do anything? We are pretty close to needing guys with guns to enforce the law. Good luck with the entire GOP entrenched.
07-20-2017 , 11:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jt217
Jesus, did trumps approval ratings really spike after those bombings? Like the most widely reported on bombings of the last 6 months or so? what the **** is wrong with us?

The media and our culture of violence, referring specifically to this.
07-20-2017 , 11:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by simplicitus
Laurence Tribe‏ Verified account
@tribelaw

Memo to Trump: Anyone you pardon can be compelled to testify without any grant of immunity, and that testimony could undo you.
---------

Blake Hounshell ‏Verified account
@blakehounshell
Aug. 5, 1974 OLC memo: "the president cannot pardon himself" https://www.justice.gov/file/20856/download
https://twitter.com/blakehounshell/s...24673997221888
---------

Note, in June Adam Schiff stated that Congress would re-pass the old independent counsel law if Trump fires Mueller and would then reappoint Mueller. That may be wishful thinking, but there will be a ton of pressure.
The republicans need this messed resolved one way or another and they were on board with mueller. I think there would be a strong likelihood congress would put mueller back to work.
07-20-2017 , 11:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by uDevil
As not a lawyer, I was wondering how Trump "undercuts" Mueller without obstructing justice.

https://twitter.com/EricHolder/statu...22773348360192
That's another thing, Trump's legal team is already flirting obstruction of justice with regard to Mueller. I can't understand why Trump's lawyer isn't his own "spokesperson". I've never heard of a lawyer with a spokesperson, but it may be a way to avoid an obstruction charge. (But lawyers have a fair bit of leeway on what they can say on behalf of a client, at least under Calif. law.)
07-20-2017 , 11:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Riverman
Reminder, this is all the baby boomers fault

WOAT ****ING POS GENERATION EVER
IMO "closet" racists upset a black man became the most powerful person in the world are really the ones to blame. A lot overlap with baby boomers to be sure, though.
07-20-2017 , 11:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ecriture d'adulte
Comey/Mueller was/are in totally different positions. If you fire the head of the FBI, somebody else takes the job and all business proceeds as before. If you fire Mueller the investigation is dead, and Congress or whoever else is forced to act to reopen it.
maybe little-known-fact: after the saturday night massacre a new special prosecutor took cox's place and the investigation picked up right where it left off

fwiw
07-20-2017 , 11:22 PM
Can the president pardon before a conviction?

An indictment of anyone in his family/campaign should lead to impeachment hearings.
07-20-2017 , 11:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by simplicitus
Source? This could be possible, but it isn't my current understanding.]
Then i might be wrong, I don't have a source and i assumed what i said was obvious. I thought that the President can fire the FBI director but obv not the FBI. Comey's direct reports and their direct reports and so on showed up the day after he was fired and mostly did the same thing. If Mueller gets fired the jobs under him no longer exist. They all signed up for a temporary gig involving Russian collusion and if they used to report to some FBI director not investigating Russia they go back to reporting to reporting to him once Mueller's probe ends, regardless of how that happens. Maybe that is wrong though.
07-20-2017 , 11:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ecriture d'adulte
Then i might be wrong, I don't have a source and i assumed what i said was obvious. I thought that the President can fire the FBI director but obv not the FBI. Comey's direct reports and their direct reports and so on showed up the day after he was fired and mostly did the same thing. If Mueller gets fired the jobs under him no longer exist. They all signed up for a temporary gig involving Russian collusion and if they used to report to some FBI director not investigating Russia they go back to reporting to reporting to him once Mueller's probe ends, regardless of how that happens. Maybe that is wrong though.
Updated my post above with quote from CRS Report on special counsel investigations that implies inquiries are not tied to a particular person named as special counsel.
07-20-2017 , 11:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Namath12
maybe little-known-fact: after the saturday night massacre a new special prosecutor took cox's place and the investigation picked up right where it left off

fwiw
And my understanding is that Nixon wasn't under any legal obligation to do so, but he had to because of political pressure from even his own parry?

      
m