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The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: No smocking guns. The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: No smocking guns.

07-12-2017 , 03:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by goofyballer
Most conversations we have about anonymous sources (including some of this one!) lack this kind of nuance and distinction between legitimate and illegitimate uses of them, though. By responding to Donald Trump saying "anonymous sources giving accurate reports of my son's nefarious meetings with Russians are FAKE NEWS" with "the man has a point" - no, he doesn't, you two are talking about completely different things.
I deeply regret ever nodding along with Trump because it was intentionally provocative.

Here's the Trump tweet:

Quote:
Remember, when you hear the words "sources say" from the Fake Media, often times those sources are made up and do not exist.
If he had instead said this:

Quote:
Remember, when you hear the words "sources say" from the media, often times those sources are made up and do not exist.
And if it was anyone other than Donald Trump, I'd have fist pumped and been like yeah, this guy, he gets it. Obviously it goes without saying the quip is a LITTLE GLIB but see my posts earlier ITT that the real meaty criticisms of anonymous sourcing is a little too wonky for most people and this makes the point bluntly and simply in the way most news consumers can understand.
07-12-2017 , 03:17 PM
Yes well if the GOP base were capable of evaluating each individual news story critically on its merits they wouldn't be the GOP's base, they'd be the Dems'.
07-12-2017 , 03:23 PM
Chris Wray is probably going to be confirmed as the new FBI Director.

Any chance he fires Mueller and puts a stop to the investigation?
07-12-2017 , 03:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rococo
This take on journalistic standards seems non-controversial. It falls far short of an all-out war on anonymous sourcing.
A vast majority of uses of anonymous sources are unjustifiable. Some are valid. The problem is severe because the bad uses outnumber the good ones. It's like noting there's a big problem with opiate abuse and suggesting I'm arguing we outlaw pain relief. That's not what I'm saying. The problem with anonymous source is pretty bad and I'd be happy enough if we simply just started listening to all of those public editors and ombudsmen like the one at the NYT that literally started a blog to document and catalog all of their bad uses of anonymous sources to try to get its staff and readers to pay attention to the problem and follow their own standards.
07-12-2017 , 03:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperUberBob
Chris Wray is probably going to be confirmed as the new FBI Director.

Any chance he fires Mueller and puts a stop to the investigation?
I don't think the FBI Director has that power.
07-12-2017 , 03:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperUberBob
Chris Wray is probably going to be confirmed as the new FBI Director.

Any chance he fires Mueller and puts a stop to the investigation?
it's not up to him. he might be able to quash the fbi investigation but i don't believe he can touch mueller. right now mueller is under the purview of deputy attorney general rosenstein
07-12-2017 , 03:33 PM
I doubt the US mass media right now is so bad that saving it will be pyrrhic victory. And the fight against free press is on the very top of this administration list.
07-12-2017 , 03:39 PM
I think we can both ask for better from the media, and in the process of asking for better not concede to Trump and his idiot brigades that the institution should be dismantled and censored. Part of why the media is held in low esteem and the door left open for charlatans to have their disingenuous criticisms find a voice is because of degraded practices, lower standards and high profile embarrassments (I'll obviously concede partisan emotion explains most of the negative reaction to media but some is entirely deserved).
07-12-2017 , 03:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AllTheCheese
Comparing Trump to pocket Aces itt.
...OF KNOWLEDGE!


Inb4 The Liberal Agenda
07-12-2017 , 03:43 PM
Huckabeast: "BUT CLINTON!"
07-12-2017 , 03:45 PM
Wray won't have the authority to fire Mueller, but he can squash the FBI's own investigation.
07-12-2017 , 03:46 PM
Add one more to dvaut's list

07-12-2017 , 03:53 PM
As bobman/micro/Trolly and others have noted, it's actually a common media criticism and tons of people who cherish great journalism and document the transgressions have been sounding the alarm for some time that anonymous sourcing is way too commonplace and its an environment simply rife for abuse. Once reporters and editors start letting sources go anonymous out of convenience, rather than with genuine justifications, it's a slippery slope.
07-12-2017 , 03:58 PM
wow daughter of guitar virtuoso governor mike huckabee acting as official spokesperson for the president responded to questions about don jr with "what about hillary clinton"


also now claiming today that religious leaders normally and regularly visit the president in the oval office to lay hands on him in prayer
07-12-2017 , 03:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chippa58
They are not under pressure to find amazing stories. They are commonly assigned to cover their beats and not to miss anything that falls under the category of their beat. Journalists who fabricate stories do so at considerable risk to their careers and possibly to their personal finances. Again, slander is a thing still.

That said, I do think that there is a trend toward increasingly slanted news. FOX has a conservative slant. MSNBC has a liberal slant. Both also have "personalities" who blur the line between celebrity and journalist. Most of the online news sites that have sprung up over the past decade or two can be labeled liberal or conservative. Its a disturbing trend, but the fact is, that we apparently like our news slanted. Increasingly, the channels and publications that play it down the middle are losing viewers and readers. Each of us should ask ourselves, if we indeed do like to view our news with a slant, and if we do, that says something about our society, and what it says probably isn't that great.
There's no such thing as unslanted news. It's much better if publications acknowledge their own internal biases. Pretending there is objective news is a huge problem and allows for the easier spreading of propaganda. (Although, Breitbart and what not, this may not be true if true believers take their own biased news sources as gospel).

It's very difficult because we always have to apply critical thinking and probably at some point just trust certain sources to do good work but we can never be sure of that.
07-12-2017 , 04:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrWookie
Wray won't have the authority to fire Mueller, but he can squash the FBI's own investigation.
I thought the whole point of the Special Council is that there would not be a FBI investigation.

I disagree by degree that the "vast majority" of anonymous source use is unjustified, at least among the big MSM, non Politico outlets.
07-12-2017 , 04:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by iron81
I thought the whole point of the Special Council is that there would not be a FBI investigation.
it's insurance on the fbi investigation
07-12-2017 , 04:08 PM
I recall hearing that CNN'S news gathering operation was something like 10x larger than Fox's. MSNBC seems closet to Fox.
07-12-2017 , 04:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScreaminAsian
wow daughter of guitar virtuoso governor mike huckabee acting as official spokesperson for the president responded to questions about don jr with "what about hillary clinton"


also now claiming today that religious leaders normally and regularly visit the president in the oval office to lay hands on him in prayer
If their best defense is to just say "what about Hillary.." I'd say they have a big problem.

07-12-2017 , 04:15 PM
Wow. I mean, I knew James Woods had lost his ****, but I had no idea it was that bad.
07-12-2017 , 04:15 PM
hot sauce in her bag rofl you got me again ben garrison!
07-12-2017 , 04:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by iron81
I thought the whole point of the Special Council is that there would not be a FBI investigation.

I disagree by degree that the "vast majority" of anonymous source use is unjustified, at least among the big MSM, non Politico outlets.
I literally went to CNN and clicked on like the first link at the top of the page. First one. Not even kidding:

http://www.cnn.com/2017/07/12/politi...ood/index.html

Quote:
"The White House is paralyzed," a top Republican close to the West Wing told CNN ahead of Trump's departure to Paris, a withering assessment of an administration whose goals of passing a health care bill, overhauling the tax code and defeating ISIS have been complicated once again.

"Another week lost," is how one official described the legislative timeline for Trump and Republicans, an acknowledgment that the latest swirl of Russia developments complicate an already imperiled agenda.

Escaping what advisers, aides, and other Republicans describe as a White House rattled by Russia bombshells, Trump will find himself here instead embraced by Gallic splendor.
Quote:
Privately, Trump has expressed dismay that Trump Jr. agreed to meet with the Russian lawyer, according to a Republican source, who said the President believes it wasn't a smart move -- but also that his son did not run afoul of the law.

Trump, the Republican source said, is annoyed that the narrative surrounding the meeting has become a distraction from what he and his advisers saw as a successful overseas trip last week to Poland and Germany.
Quote:
Ahead of his departure for Paris, Trump spent much of his time watching television and huddled with top advisers, according to two administration officials. He barely left the Oval Office. And his mood ranged from furious to frustrated, but also defiant.
Quote:
A day earlier, he received some degree of solace during a visit from evangelical leaders. A photo from the session inside the Oval Office showed a huddle forming around the entrenched President, hands resting on his shoulders as his head bows in prayer.

Outside the room in the West Wing hallways, staffers remain in fighting mood, according to several people speaking on condition of anonymity, describing the mindset among Trump's aides. Many view the episode surrounding Trump Jr. -- who remains widely popular among ex-campaign staffers -- as blatantly unfair, even if they concede his decision-making on the matter appeared questionable.

White House chief of staff Reince Priebus -- who himself has been the subject of speculation over his own standing with the President -- has been telling staffers to "tune out the noise," according to a person familiar with his conversations. He's urged underlings to keep their heads down and stay focused on their work.
Quote:
It's also triggered another round of speculation about aides' standing in the White House. Questions about the origin of the leaks have rippled through Washington, with the suggestion that backstabbing aides may be looking to take down their rivals.
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One source familiar with the matter said tensions have emerged between some members of the President's senior staff and Marc Kasowitz, Trump's longtime lawyer who has been retained to handle the Russia matter.
Quote:
Some inside the administration concede the President's staff is long due for a shakeup, but that constant efforts to rebut the Russia allegations have made executing such a decision difficult.

Priebus, one administration official said, faces "fresh, new hell" daily. And other staffers simply seem too inexperienced to properly execute a presidential agenda, the official said.
Quote:
A number of those officials warned that the combination of power and naïveté was sure to get Trump's family members in trouble. But even these sources expressed surprise about the damaging nature of the meeting between Trump Jr., Paul Manafort, Jared Kushner and a Russian lawyer.

"They're in deep, deep s--- and they don't know it," one Republican said of the Trump White House.
Quote:
"Now you're into the phase that they're starting to turn on each other," the source said.
I don't think I can even quote more since it violates Fair Use or whatever. It goes on for longer. The whole article is anonymously sourced gossip. Pretense about what the President is feeling ("solace" when his friends came to pray). Innuendo about dramatic staff shakeups on the horizon. Reports of steel spined Priebus giving coach-speak pep talks to the staff. Concessions the President should shake up his staff but they can't because of Russia. Trump is derelict as President and is just watching TV. Threats about their legal culpability and naiveté of their precarious legal situation. Family drama gossip about how they're turning on each other.

I literally didn't even game this, it's literally the first thing I clicked on.

The whole article, the whole thing is literally just palace intrigue gossip. You and I have no idea which of this is empirical, what's made up, no way to tell who the sources are, what their agendas are, how much of their speculation about the feelings and tone and tenor are credible. We're not the reporting team, we obviously can't check for ourselves, but we have no way to know where the gossip is coming from and how much the purveyors are inserting their own opinions into the situation.

Literally what is the justification for this article and granting literally every single source the opportunity to dish anonymously? Can't they at least put Kellyanne Conway's name on like 75% of this and Bannon's on the other 25% or whatever? AT LEAST then you could say, well, this is maybe garbage and Bannon is trying to torch Jared and Ivanka because of his grudge, or this is Nick Ayer's quote readying the GOP for a Pence coup or whatever the ****. It wouldn't change the tenor of the article from tabloid gossip but at least it would elevate it to real journalism.

Last edited by DVaut1; 07-12-2017 at 04:27 PM.
07-12-2017 , 04:16 PM
i love that selling uranium to russia is a huge deal, as if they don't already have nuclear weapons. they have more than we do!
07-12-2017 , 04:18 PM
that hamburger looks delicious

      
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