The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: No smocking guns. - Page 1789 - Politics and Economics

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The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: No smocking guns.

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07-11-2017 , 10:18 AM

#44701

pyatnitski

grinder

Join Date: Sep 2013 Posts: 423

Quote:

Originally Posted by DVaut1

Maybe I'm cynical, but none of the Trumps are getting charged with anything. Modern American justice for rich white elites is irony, humor, and snark, not like deterring or mitigating their crimes. So pile on the snark and enjoy the show but don't get too invested in expecting these guys to get charged with crimes, you'll likely wind up disappointed.

I agree, rich white people don't get charged with the heaviest crimes they could get charged with - and treason will probably always be the heaviest. I was mostly just trying to go beyond the "it's definitely treason" / "it's definitely not treason" posts and see if it was possible to find out.

07-11-2017 , 10:21 AM

#44702

Trolly McTrollson

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 37,863

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rococo

I figured out that much. Where? Is that even legal? Was this one of those deals where someone puts an animal in an enclosed space and you walk up and shoot it.

I think I saw a Louis Theroux documentary on something like that.

I don't understand how anyone who has seen an elephant could have any desire to shoot an elephant.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.was...photos-follow/

Pretty sure this is one of those Cecil the Lion-style hunts where you pay a guide to drive you up to the animal so you can shoot it. ofc completely legal in various African countries.

07-11-2017 , 10:27 AM

#44703

pyatnitski

grinder

Join Date: Sep 2013 Posts: 423

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheHip41

The issue is the are collaborating with Russia, during the presidential campaign, to negotiate this:

We help you win the election
You get sanctions removed

This isn't known to be the plan for the meeting we're discussing. It may be true, but I was trying to post about that meeting and what the NYT seems to have well sourced evidence for.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheHip41

The sanctions were put in place by the president of the united states, so the sanctions are the official line of the USA at the time of the meeting.

Trump Jr and Co. are meeting with Russians, with the intent of getting help to win the election. to subvert official US policy in respects to russia.

'Levying war' is a higher standard than just 'working against the interests or policy of'. Further, presidents of the US can change US policy - intending to change US policy is exactly what all presidential candidates are doing. Again, it only seems treasonous if you consider Russia an enemy.

Last edited by pyatnitski; 07-11-2017 at 10:30 AM. Reason: Obviously it could still be criminal depending on the info and methods of gathering.

07-11-2017 , 10:28 AM

#44704

AllCowsEatGrass

banned

Join Date: Mar 2017 Posts: 1,839

Louis for not being able to shoot the animal.

07-11-2017 , 10:30 AM

#44705

Rococo

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 19,577

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trolly McTrollson

Wonderful. Not sure how I missed those photos.

07-11-2017 , 10:32 AM

#44706

AllCowsEatGrass

banned

Join Date: Mar 2017 Posts: 1,839

Sigh.

With Gorilla gone, is there hope for man?

07-11-2017 , 10:43 AM

#44707

Our House

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 28,109

How about it's as simple as this:

Has Putin broken US Federal Law by hacking and other crimes? What about other Russians working on his behalf, like hackers, bankers, lawyers?

From my understanding, conspiring to work with someone who breaks the law makes you complicit, and an accessory to that crime. If that crime is espionage, you too. Same goes for Flynn with his plot to kidnap someone on behalf of Erdogan & Turkey. The kidnapping need not actually happen for the crime of conspiracy to have been committed.

07-11-2017 , 10:48 AM

#44708

Trolly McTrollson

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 37,863

Quote:

Originally Posted by Our House

Good luck legally proving that Putin was responsible for the hacking. Try subpoenaing the FSB.

07-11-2017 , 10:49 AM

#44709

dinopoker

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 9,437

Quote:

Originally Posted by eyebooger

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/...28971530829824

Yeah because no one is sure who's nominees they are, yours or Putin's.

07-11-2017 , 10:52 AM

#44710

TheHip41

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 27,049

Quote:

Originally Posted by pyatnitski

This isn't known to be the plan for the meeting we're discussing. It may be true,

you know god damn well that they were at that meeting to discuss the removal of sanctions for help in the election

07-11-2017 , 10:54 AM

#44711

TheHip41

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 27,049

Quote:

Originally Posted by pyatnitski

Further, presidents of the US can change US policy - intending to change US policy is exactly what all presidential candidates are doing. Again, it only seems treasonous if you consider Russia an enemy.

Trump was not the president when this was going down. He and his team were actively working with the Russian government to subvert actually US policy on Russia.

what is that, if not treason?

07-11-2017 , 11:00 AM

#44712

DVaut1

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 30,005

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rococo

DVaut,

I know you are a fan of pro wrestling as a metaphor for politics, so I thought you should know that there apparently is a heel wrestler on some circuit in Appalachia that wrestles under the name of Progressive Liberal. He wears HRC T-shirts during promos, yells at the crowd for voting against its economic interest, and tells them that their jobs are never coming back. His finishing move is the "Liberal Agenda."

No ****. This is a real thing.

http://deadspin.com/the-progressive-...a-d-1796773388

I've already written a bunch about this guy ITT upstream a few thousand posts.

07-11-2017 , 11:03 AM

#44713

ScreaminAsian

For President

Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 33,333

nbc news asked the russian lady lawyer if she was an agent of putin, and she said "no"

so that's the end of this nothingburger

07-11-2017 , 11:03 AM

#44714

Namath12

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 55,849

Quote:

Originally Posted by AllCowsEatGrass

Sigh.

With Gorilla gone, is there hope for man?

Apes. Together. Strong.

07-11-2017 , 11:08 AM

#44715

ScreaminAsian

For President

Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 33,333

The Times now has the email to Donald Trump Jr. offering Russian aid to "incriminate Hillary." His reply: "If it's what you say I love it."

The documents “would incriminate Hillary and her dealings with Russia and would be very useful to your father,” read the email, written by a trusted intermediary, who added, “This is obviously very high level and sensitive information but is part of Russia and its government’s support for Mr. Trump.”

If the future president’s elder son was surprised or disturbed by the provenance of the promised material — or the notion that it was part of an ongoing effort by the Russian government to aid his father’s campaign — he gave no indication.

He replied within minutes: “If it’s what you say I love it especially later in the summer.”

Four days later, after a flurry of emails, the intermediary wrote back, proposing a meeting in New York on Thursday with a “Russian government attorney.”

Donald Trump Jr. agreed, adding that he would likely bring along “Paul Manafort (campaign boss)” and “my brother-in-law,” Jared Kushner, now one of the president’s closest White House advisers.

07-11-2017 , 11:09 AM

#44716

dinopoker

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 9,437

Quote:

Originally Posted by Namath12

The bolded bit bugs me. I've admittedly not studied much case law (by "much" I mean "any") on this issue but do we really have to be at war with a foreign power for them to be considered "hostile?"

What if I commit espionage on behalf of, say, Israel? They're an ally so that's not treason?

It would be espionage though, which is also a crime. And anyone who helped you or conspired with you would be just as guilty.

07-11-2017 , 11:15 AM

#44717

Namath12

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 55,849

07-11-2017 , 11:17 AM

#44718

hacksaw JD

journeyman

Join Date: Jan 2017 Posts: 209

this idiot is so stupid, he thinks releasing that email helps him.

it says, "is part of RUssia and its government's support for Mr Trump" IN THE ****ING EMAIL!

07-11-2017 , 11:17 AM

#44719

sportsjefe

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 13,693

Quote:

Originally Posted by ScreaminAsian

The Times now has the email to Donald Trump Jr. offering Russian aid to "incriminate Hillary." His reply: "If it's what you say I love it."

The documents “would incriminate Hillary and her dealings with Russia and would be very useful to your father,” read the email, written by a trusted intermediary, who added, “This is obviously very high level and sensitive information but is part of Russia and its government’s support for Mr. Trump.”

If the future president’s elder son was surprised or disturbed by the provenance of the promised material — or the notion that it was part of an ongoing effort by the Russian government to aid his father’s campaign — he gave no indication.

He replied within minutes: “If it’s what you say I love it especially later in the summer.”

Four days later, after a flurry of emails, the intermediary wrote back, proposing a meeting in New York on Thursday with a “Russian government attorney.”

Donald Trump Jr. agreed, adding that he would likely bring along “Paul Manafort (campaign boss)” and “my brother-in-law,” Jared Kushner, now one of the president’s closest White House advisers.

Jr.'s not good at this. He posted the email chain in screenshots to his twitter.

https://twitter.com/anamariecox/stat...92841758810112

07-11-2017 , 11:18 AM

#44720

sportsjefe

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 13,693

Including page 4

https://twitter.com/KateNocera/statu...91160513978368

07-11-2017 , 11:19 AM

#44721

prana

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 8,513

07-11-2017 , 11:20 AM

#44722

DVaut1

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 30,005

Email: "They have incriminating information about Hillary. Part of Russia and its government and their support for Mr. Trump"
Don Jr.: "no idea what they even wanted, adoption or something"

07-11-2017 , 11:20 AM

#44723

NMcNasty

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 3,990

Jr. obviously going for the "Yeah I did it. So?" defense.

Scary part is that it will probably work.

07-11-2017 , 11:20 AM

#44724

prana

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 8,513

He released them because the NY Times has them too now.

07-11-2017 , 11:21 AM

#44725

phillydilly

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 7,475

this all makes complete sense. DJT Jr takes the hit for EVERYTHING. DJT is absolved from being involved. DJT pardons Jr.

its like when weebay took the fall for all the murders barksdale's crew committed. the difference is this version stringer has the ability to pardon everyone.

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