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The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: No smocking guns. The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: No smocking guns.

07-07-2017 , 11:46 AM
I just read a Christopher Hitchens essay "Blood for no oil!". It's mostly a very poor attempt to pretend he's anything other than an unapologetic neocon warmonger who is disgusted that the liberal consensus "lacks spine and sinew". That's something he could easily have lifted from William F. Buckley. He also gets into the jihadi attack on Western Civilization. It feels clear that the entirety of the anti-Islam movement, when not open racism, is very thinly disguised tribalism and if not nationalism/patriotism, then a semi-international version of it encompassing The West. That's not to say "Western Values" as it pretends, but "The West" simply as a tribal identification or fandom.
07-07-2017 , 11:52 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by microbet
We should drop this obviously, but I can't help saying it's impossible for the Cunucks to have won the nuclear race. You could build one now for sure, but we had 100000 people working on it in facilities across the US.

An underrated part of American exceptionalism is that among the wealthier countries per capita we have by far the largest population.
Welllll if the USA lost the Revolutionary War, then you could make a pretty good argument that a lot of the states in the north east would be part of Canada now (if not all of them). So if NJ was one of those then yeah, I'd say Canada could well have won the nuclear race.
07-07-2017 , 11:55 AM
The rest of the U.S. that still believes in liberal democracy should ally up with France and other countries that believe in liberal democracy and take on this Trump-Putin monstrosity.


https://twitter.com/jimsciutto/statu...51878054096898
07-07-2017 , 12:00 PM
Putin Trump meeting turning out being the entire ****ing day isn't a surprise everybody.
07-07-2017 , 12:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by microbet
We should drop this obviously, but I can't help saying it's impossible for the Cunucks to have won the nuclear race. You could build one now for sure, but we had 100000 people working on it in facilities across the US.

An underrated part of American exceptionalism is that among the wealthier countries per capita we have by far the largest population.
Some of Canada's (and Britain's, among others) best and brightest mathematicians, physicists, scientists etc. were involved in the Manhattan Project. We weren't sitting on the sidelines. My point? Mmmm, not sure, probably just general defensiveness at the suggestion that the US did it alone. You needed our natural, and human resources to get there. Afaict a nuclear armed US meant a nuclear armed North America.
07-07-2017 , 12:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DVaut1
I think you are of course correct that the right has done wonders by very, very intentionally conflating "Western values" with "right-winger concerns about the potency of the white male" and not actually western values and they have done very, very well conflating the assault on "Western values" to broaden from "stuff terrorists do" to "the cabal of terrorists, liberals, feminists, migrants, academics, intellectuals, globalists who are set against white male tribalism."

Obviously the things they see as transparently and obviously bad, the things they fret about as threatening and undermining widely held social values (terrorists, unchecked immigration, BLM, mandated birth control coverage, gay marriage, Chinese manufacturers) have precisely no coherent meaning UNLESS you view it in the context of white male tribalism. Of white guys feel anxious and threatened about their standing in the social order.

Then obviously the whole thing makes sense, that these people feel dispossessed (as you note, in many ways rightfully so) and have created a narrative yarn to lump all of their enemies together, and to pretend that the things that matter deeply to them (white male primacy and social power) are actually just innocuous shared collective values ("Western values").

Trump's speech, the entirety of Fox News programming, Breitbart's front page, etc. etc. should be seen in that prism and basically all other interpretations are doing it wrong.
I don't really agree with the framing here where "Western values" are the Enlightenment or progressivism and so the Trumpist view of Western civilization is just a made-up yarn. Christianity and ethnic, racial, and national identities seem to me a central part of the history of Western civilization, including most definitely its expansion. During the Cold War and with the increasing rise of globalization, these ideas lost some of their power because they were less universally appealing than capitalism and liberalism, but pretty clearly they still speak to lots of people.
07-07-2017 , 12:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Riverman
Guys,

Mueller's got this, right?
I predict that if he does find something Trump insta-fires him and faces zero consequences for it.
07-07-2017 , 12:20 PM
Lol canadians
07-07-2017 , 12:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmakin
Lol canadians
Finally an argument that makes sense.
07-07-2017 , 12:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oroku$aki
Some of Canada's (and Britain's, among others) best and brightest mathematicians, physicists, scientists etc. were involved in the Manhattan Project. We weren't sitting on the sidelines. My point? Mmmm, not sure, probably just general defensiveness at the suggestion that the US did it alone. You needed our natural, and human resources to get there. Afaict a nuclear armed US meant a nuclear armed North America.
I'm sure Canada, which had about 11 million people total when WW2 started, punched over its weight.
07-07-2017 , 12:30 PM
We often do.
07-07-2017 , 12:34 PM
Putin Trump meeting going on over 2 hours. Pee pee video?
07-07-2017 , 12:36 PM
2+ hours for a guy with a 9 second attention span seems not at all fishy
07-07-2017 , 12:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by rockfsh
Putin Trump meeting going on over 2 hours. Pee pee video?
Putin's got him in a headlock and won't let go until he agrees to hand over the keys to air force one.
07-07-2017 , 12:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Riverman
2+ hours for a guy with a 9 second attention span seems not at all fishy
It should be fine, Trump's staff broke up the talking points for his meeting with Putin into tweet-sized chunks.
07-07-2017 , 12:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by chezlaw
It's nothing as dramatic as the singularity. It's a steady increase in the mass of people who cannot escape poverty or improve their status by working.

Unaddressed, It will steadily increase anger and frustration with the system and political institutions.They will still vote. They will 'find' people to blame
Right, but that's what the racism is for.

Quote:
Originally Posted by synth_floyd
Automation may drastically increase unemployment, but there will be so much political and cultural opposition to any kind of "universal basic income." It's gonna take a 2nd great depression for that to happen, IMO. Kind of like how it will take half the US to be underwater before people actually try to take global warming seriously.
I thought UBI was actually pretty popular.
07-07-2017 , 12:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by rockfsh
Putin Trump meeting going on over 2 hours. Pee pee video?
putin is playing his usual headgames. after the first 5 minutes he excused himself to "go pee pee", which disturbed trump visibly and putin hasn't chosen to return yet
07-07-2017 , 12:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by rockfsh
Putin Trump meeting going on over 2 hours. Pee pee video?
Microchip adjustments.
07-07-2017 , 12:46 PM
Trump is getting worked. It won't just be lifting sanctions. Trump will end up building pipelines to Western Europe for Putin.
07-07-2017 , 12:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DVaut1
Back to my pessimism, though. The seminal tweet that can't be improved on:



https://twitter.com/chrislhayes/stat...679492?lang=en

This seems to me to explain it succinctly. In the future, you get the choice of bloodthirsty capitalists or bloodthirsty racists, but you gotta choose one. Nowhere in this movement is a vibrant left or really any sort of coherent defense of of the total package of Enlightenment values that can challenge either. The left and defenders of the Enlightenment gestalt seemingly unable to build any sort of meaningful way out of having to compromise with one. You see the debate all the time in the American left about the direct of the Democrats.

The understandable, big fear about specifically the Trumpian style -- I think why he rankles the left just so much -- is that he constitutes the idea of a sort of triangulation or a hybrid between the two poles in the future. The grand deplorable capitalist compromise. I think that's why some of you are understandably pushing back on simplicitus's optimism, because of the idea Trump sits atop a movement that represents both.

Frankly imo he seems too incompetent to pull it off. Right now the administration is a total clown show and deeply unpopular and the Republicans aren't doing much beyond Trump's Twitter Trolls. But obviously, the future of the modern right-wing movement may be a better organized, more competent and effectual compromise between the two as a second best ideal for both sides. That finance capitalism needs bloodthirsty racist idiots as the democratic buttress to allow them to do business without pesky leftist regulations and tax schemes, and the bloodthirsty racists need the finance capitalist elites to get access to money and power. The result is the mediocre white continues their life as a normal schlubs, anxious about how to pay for this and that and the forces of capitalism and the elites have to rub shoulders and do business with the boorish morons and their representatives like Trump. But they each get something.
It is a systematic problem that can be solved but is unlikely to be solved. Most congressmen have to spend a awful lot of time to raise money for elections. The barrier you have to cross to win elections is to collect enough money to finance your campaign. The people who can effort to take out their check book and spend $5000 (the average for donations) is the group we would label as the 1%. So mostly white male business owners and executives who have political preferences who aren't hard to guess. Less tax, less regulation, more subventions for business.


So no matter what you ideology is, as a politician you have to represent the needs of those who pay for your reelection. This is the reason why business interest comes before the will of the voters almost every time and certain problems remain unsolved. Gun regulation or fixing the prison system do have huge public support, yet no politician touches it.

It´s perfectly legal corruption.
07-07-2017 , 12:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScreaminAsian
putin is playing his usual headgames. after the first 5 minutes he excused himself to "go pee pee", which disturbed trump visibly and putin hasn't chosen to return yet
Not sure Putin would have to excuse himself for that; it might be part of the head game.
07-07-2017 , 01:01 PM
of course putin was going to drag out the meeting knowing trump's attention span lasts about the length of a handshake. now putin can get him to offer up whatever he wants because trump is too stupid to no better and tillerson is literally a friend of russia
07-07-2017 , 01:09 PM
Maybe Trump defected? The pressure is getting too close at home, and they had to pull him out.
07-07-2017 , 01:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TiltedDonkey
Not sure Putin would have to excuse himself for that; it might be part of the head game.
07-07-2017 , 01:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tomdemaine
How did the trump putin handshake go? Did he try his macho bull**** on a true psychopath?

Edit: just watched a video but it cut a split second before the trump jerk would have taken place.
Starting a grip fight with a Judoka, that's surely going to end well for Trump's ego.

      
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