1812, back when Texas and California were part of the same country: Mexico.

Dino,

In the real world the Allies barely won World War II with the United States. But in your world without the United States participating everything is still cool for Canada. Whether Germany won or Japan or Russia or whatever combination of the three still Canada has no problems.

It's pretty clear who has the laughable alternative history.

Canadian Man Sorry for Chugging Eight Beers and Swimming to Detroit

Don't know why they put him in jail and fined him. Seems like being exposed to the Detroit river is punishment enough.

Would have gone Onion on that one for sure.

eh, nationalism existed before the 19th century...

There's literally nobody in the State Department to handle this. I'm waiting for Trump to insist that all future international meetings be held in cities with a Trump hotel.

rachel says she got mailed the same thing that louise mench was probably talking about, and she says it's probably fake because it's SO explosively high classified and details explicit gun firing evidence

rachel rn:

is she gonna at least tell us what was in it??

nahhh nope

she said the document detailed evidence of direct knowing collusion between a top member of trump's campaign and russian intelligence, but that she's sure it's fake because of pixels and typos and because it purports to be an nsa document that names a us citizen

I saw the report too. Crazed.

Imagine one of those got through...what damage it would do to the credibility of media and for all future stories? I wonder if Russia considered this.

Of course they did. A key component of this whole ordeal is breaking the public's trust in institutions.

I've visited the site, but not that familiar with The Intercept. But since they got the document that was used to create the forgery, their credibility is damaged.

I guess the sarcasm wasn't exactly radiating from that post. I'll try to do better next time.

This. We really need some good guys in there.

that document was confirmed legitimate, reality winner was arrested the day it was published. it doesn't get more confirmed than that.

The original document, yes. But Intercept (possibly) allowed a bad guy to get a copy and use it for their nefarious purpose. Rachel said they are generally skeptical of the Trump-Russia stuff. So even worse for Intercept's credibility is it looks like the bad guy could be them.

You ever hear these people on the news show say "That's why I'm not in the Republican Party anymore" cuz they are embarrassed about the administration? I have a strange feeling that these people will not be voting for democrats in the future. I mean nobody really knows for sure.

Three issues on the Maddow thing:

1) it seems very odd that the document was created before the source was published at the Intercept. That would massively narrow the potential sources. Maddow seemed a bit vague on how they knew that. Pdf time stamp? Easy to fake.

2) Was it created by Russians, some roger stone type, or a random 4 chan/the_Donald fanboy? I'd guess the latter.

3) The thing about maddow is that she's actually smart. You send this to Fox/Brietbart/etc and if it's about Hillary they run with it all day long, including after it's been debunked.

Can someone write a Twitter essay on the incoherence of the whole Western way of life under threat from a few Muslim fundamentalists who entirely depend on a resource that will have less value in 20 years?

It seems to me that the complaint is actually with the continued expansion of "western values" as embodied in ideas like science, reason, natural rights, and democracy to brown and black people, including in the US. That is, the moran who wrote the speech for the puppet to give is concerned with the expansion of western values in a manner analogous to those who resisted the notion that "all men are created equal" should be read to mean blacks and women.

Are the ideas of some dude hiding in a cave somewhere so he don't get blown up an actual threat to the future of western civilization? (Will the white women lose interest in us if blacks can own land? Will same sex marrige make me go gay?) If so, then we best reexamine the strength of enlightenment ideals, because they must be pretty damn weak.

And is the idea actually that only white people can appreciate the superiority of reason as a guide to thought and conduct and are thus capable of democracy? Because it seems to me that if the rest of the cannot see the virtue of 'western values', it is because they will inevitably fail to appreciate the allure of science, pluralism, reason, tolerance, and free expression and are thus incapable of existing in democratic societies. Now, I grant it often takes a generation or two for such ideas to take hold, and there are powerful forces that seek to oppose them, but they are the most virulent memes (pace Dawkins) that have ever existed, and with the ever growning speed and means of information dissemination, it was pretty much game over 100 years ago, maybe 200 years ago. The table has already been set, we're just in the mop up phase.

Now, on can quibble around the edges here and there, but the point is that 'western values' are not exactly under threat. In fact, the only people who have justified fear for the future of their ideas or way of life are those cultures that depend on things like religion, castes, monarchy, racial superiorority, etc., because they are genuinely screwed and will naturally produce dead enders to fight a war that was lost as soon as it began.

That's very optimistic talk for having just elected Trump.