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The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: No smocking guns. The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: No smocking guns.

07-06-2017 , 03:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by batair
I wouldn't defend all of our wars and am an isolationist militarily at heart. But practically what happens if the US pulls all of its troops form the 150 countries we have them in? Id think world stability could take a hit for a while and there would be less peace in it.
Well let's analyse a few...

Germany - No
Israel - arguable since they have a pretty deft military and nukes
Italy - No
Saudi Arabia - arguable
Qatar - arguable
UAE - No
Singapore - Uh no.
Spain - No
Turkey - arguable, probably not
Cuba - LOL
Guam - LOL
Okinawa - LOL
UK - LOL
Afghanistan - joking, right?
Bahrain - LOL
Greenland - LOLOL

Best case one is probably South Korea and that one's pretty arguable too. There's an equally good case that the US presence there is making the situation with PDRK worse, not better.

Quote:
Originally Posted by microbet
Probably Tojo and Stalin.
This is again laughable. Pretty much assumes that the Japanese/Russian alliance (two countries that hate each other) would've conspired to launch joint invasions of Canada. Except invading on the West side would be pointless because again they'd have to cross the Rockies and even if that was possible they'd still have the Great Plains. Meanwhile in the East it would all come down again to the St. Lawrence river and as has been shown for like 300 years whomever controls Quebec controls that, and last time I checked that was us. So good luck to the Russkies but I'd bet against it.
07-06-2017 , 03:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dinopoker
Well let's analyse a few...

Germany - No
Israel - arguable since they have a pretty deft military and nukes
Italy - No
Saudi Arabia - arguable
Qatar - arguable
UAE - No
Singapore - Uh no.
Spain - No
Turkey - arguable, probably not
Cuba - LOL
Guam - LOL
Okinawa - LOL
UK - LOL
Afghanistan - joking, right?
Bahrain - LOL
Greenland - LOLOL

Best case one is probably South Korea and that one's pretty arguable too. There's an equally good case that the US presence there is making the situation with PDRK worse, not better.



This is again laughable. Pretty much assumes that the Japanese/Russian alliance (two countries that hate each other) would've conspired to launch joint invasions of Canada. Except invading on the West side would be pointless because again they'd have to cross the Rockies and even if that was possible they'd still have the Great Plains. Meanwhile in the East it would all come down again to the St. Lawrence river and as has been shown for like 300 years whomever controls Quebec controls that, and last time I checked that was us. So good luck to the Russkies but I'd bet against it.
Yeah, this is all correct and the responses to it are just Americans with a heightened sense of importance imposed on them by the false theory of American exceptionalism with an added bit of geography failure.
07-06-2017 , 03:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Max Cut
A+
Quote:
Originally Posted by dinopoker
Well let's analyse a few...

Germany - No
Israel - arguable since they have a pretty deft military and nukes
Italy - No
Saudi Arabia - arguable
Qatar - arguable
UAE - No
Singapore - Uh no.
Spain - No
Turkey - arguable, probably not
Cuba - LOL
Guam - LOL
Okinawa - LOL
UK - LOL
Afghanistan - joking, right?
Bahrain - LOL
Greenland - LOLOL

Best case one is probably South Korea and that one's pretty arguable too. There's an equally good case that the US presence there is making the situation with PDRK worse, not better.



This is again laughable. Pretty much assumes that the Japanese/Russian alliance (two countries that hate each other) would've conspired to launch joint invasions of Canada. Except invading on the West side would be pointless because again they'd have to cross the Rockies and even if that was possible they'd still have the Great Plains. Meanwhile in the East it would all come down again to the St. Lawrence river and as has been shown for like 300 years whomever controls Quebec controls that, and last time I checked that was us. So good luck to the Russkies but I'd bet against it.
Come on. Jesus.

I mean separately. Japan would have almost certainly attacked in the late 30s/early 40s as they needed resources very badly.

Stalin would have taken Alaska if it belonged to Canada in the 1950s.

Either way, they don't need all of Canada.

Or maybe a victorious Germany gets there. But there's no way The Americas survive the 30s-50s without some superpower being part of it.

Last edited by microbet; 07-06-2017 at 03:53 PM.
07-06-2017 , 03:51 PM
Interesting that since the TPP has been scuttled, Japan signed a free trade agreement with Europe instead. The whole point of the TPP was to make international trade based on US laws, but will now be based on European trade laws instead, which tend to be more liberal and less corporate friendly. Yay I guess?
07-06-2017 , 03:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by aoFrantic
Yeah, this is all correct and the responses to it are just Americans with a heightened sense of importance imposed on them by the false theory of American exceptionalism with an added bit of geography failure.
No. Did you notice how Japan took over pretty much everything that touched the Pacific on the non-US side?

And then how after the war Stalin surrounded all sides with buffer states except the very east side which runs up against the US?
07-06-2017 , 04:00 PM
Trump's speech in Poland "An International Brotherhood of White Grievance"

Quote:
“The fundamental question of our time is whether the West has the will to survive,” he said. “Do we have the confidence in our values to defend them at any cost? Do we have enough respect for our citizens to protect our borders? Do we have the desire and the courage to preserve our civilization in the face of those who would subvert and destroy it?” Later, he evoked Poland’s wartime resistance to Nazism and Soviet communism. “The memories of those who perished in the Warsaw Uprising cry out across the decades,” he said. “Those heroes remind us that the West was saved with the blood of patriots; that each generation must rise up and play their part in its defense and that every foot of ground, and every last inch of civilization, is worth defending with your life.”

Such rhetoric is meant to conjure blood-and-soil nationalism. Here, Trump is defining the West not based on ideals like democracy and liberty, but atavistic loyalties to territory and shared kinship. The speech was written by senior advisor Stephen Miller, and, like his other writing, it evoked themes popular with the alt-right and cultural conservatives: that immigration is an existential threat, and that religion and family values are essential to revitalizing the will of the West in the face of its enemies, both internal and external.
https://newrepublic.com/article/1437...hite-grievance
07-06-2017 , 04:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by synth_floyd
Interesting that since the TPP has been scuttled, Japan signed a free trade agreement with Europe instead. The whole point of the TPP was to make international trade based on US laws, but will now be based on European trade laws instead, which tend to be more liberal and less corporate friendly. Yay I guess?
I don't know how liberal the EU is unless you mean in the Euro sense where liberal means corporate friendly.

The one good exception, I hope, is I expect the EU to care more about environmental protection.
07-06-2017 , 04:04 PM
"Will to survive" definitely echoes "Will to Power".
07-06-2017 , 04:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Huehuecoyotl
Trump's speech in Poland "An International Brotherhood of White Grievance"



https://newrepublic.com/article/1437...hite-grievance
For Lunch today we went out for Thai food and ice cream afterwards. The makes it sound as if we are living in a war zone. The bad thing about it is that it could hit a nerve in Poland.
07-06-2017 , 04:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by microbet
I don't know how liberal the EU is unless you mean in the Euro sense where liberal means corporate friendly.

The one good exception, I hope, is I expect the EU to care more about environmental protection.
Depends on how you define it. The EU has more protection for consumers.
07-06-2017 , 04:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by microbet
"Will to survive" definitely echoes "Will to Power".
What are Worst 80s bands for $600, Alex
07-06-2017 , 04:33 PM
I can't believe the president is in Poland giving speeches written by a literal Neo-Nazi. This is just ****ing embarrassing.
07-06-2017 , 04:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clovis8
That's not real right?
From now on, any talk about Russians around the White House will be considered treason to Robert Mueller. Also...

Vladimir Putin - Vladimir Put In your mouth, my cock, eh Donald?
Sergey Kislyak - gey Kis? Mmmmm...
Donald Trump - Lead Putin apologist, Russian useful idiot / unwitting agent, likely recipient of kompromat & large Russian debts, denying publicly recorded statements about Putin meetings & Russian financial dealings
Donald Trump Jr - Denying publicly recorded statements about Russia/Trump financial dealings
Eric Trump - Denying private interview's statements about Russia/Trump $100 million golf course investments
Mike Flynn - Blackmailable Russian agent, attempted colluder, lied to everyone about Russia many times and on clearance forms
Jeff Sessions - Russian re-perjurer & re-recuser, lied about Russia on clearance forms
Paul Manafort - Russian agent, launderer
Carter Page - Russian agent (unwitting)
Jared Kushner - Russian banking backchannel, lied about Russia on security forms
Steve Bannon - Attempted colluder
Kellyanne Conway - Attempted colluder
Sam Clovis - Attempted colluder
Boris Epschtyn - Obvious Russian hiding as a Russian
Michael Cohen - Russian backchannel, maybe more
Eric Prince - Russian backchannel in Seychelles
(...)

James Comey (FBI) - Fired for investigating Russian meddling, intimidated by Trump, job threatened by Trump, loyalty demanded by Trump, discredited by Trump
Preet Bharara (EDNY AG) - Fired for investigating Russian laundering, intimidated by Trump
Sally Yates (Acting AG) - Fired for catching onto Mike Flynn, intimidated by Trump, discredited by Trump
Mike Rogers (NSA) - Asked to make false Russia statements to the public by Trump
Dan Coates (DNI) - Asked to make false Russia statements to the public by Trump
Rod Rosenstein (Deputy AG) - Job threatened by Trump, discredited by Trump
Robert Mueller - Job quietly threatened by Trump, discredited by Trump

Trump has attacked every person who has ever opposed him except for Vladimir Putin. Trump has worsened ties with US allies, NATO, the UN, and even his own staff and bipartisan government with actions favorable to Russia. Trump acted slightly against Russia ONE TIME (Assad/Syria) out of around 20+ instances, and not only warned Putin ahead of time, but did virtually no damage at all. Meanwhile, Russia continues to infiltrate our systems, take military actions to intimidate us, threaten us, and undermine us. Trump doesn't care. He just keeps saying it's all a hoax. ALL OF THIS + the evidence behind it is a hoax? Stop the bull****ting Mr President.

"Russia is a nothingburger, so stop bringing it up."
No can do, sorry.

Last edited by Our House; 07-06-2017 at 04:42 PM.
07-06-2017 , 05:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by aoFrantic
Yeah, this is all correct and the responses to it are just Americans with a heightened sense of importance imposed on them by the false theory of American exceptionalism with an added bit of geography failure.
I'm all for pulling US troops out of everywhere. Just think it should be done carefully. And let's not pretend the US wars were done in a vacume. Canada and other allies propped up those wars and added ligitmicy by joining the us. Which did not make the jobs of us anti war folks here easier.
07-06-2017 , 05:08 PM
I'm frustrated by the people resigning from positions to check the Trump Administration on ethics/corruption. I get it, but we need some of these good people to stick it out and fight for what's right as opposed to resigning hoping to draw attention to it. It'll get attention for a couple hours, then everyone will go back to normal.
07-06-2017 , 05:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by einbert
Re: Fraudulent Elections

-Voter ID laws since 2011 have been blatantly discriminating and preventing people from having an equal say
-Since 2013, Voting Rights Act preclearance has been overturned and some red states have gone totally buck wild in coming in with crazy new ways to suppress the vote.
-Sessions's DOJ is now dropping Voter ID lawsuits.
-President Trump now has an active commission into "Voter Fraud" which is a set-up to suppress more votes.
-We'll have to wait to find out the full story on Russian interference into our elections and collusion with the Trump campaign, but it's looking very possible that the 2016 election result wasn't legitimate in any real sense of the word.
I agree with all of this (these are the "problems" I alluded to) but I don't think the election was fraudulent. All of this is pretty much out in the open.


Quote:
Originally Posted by einbert
Yeah all of those are a clear "Yes" for me. Obsession with crime and punishment has been going on for a long time and a lot of that was bipartisan, but now it's very centered in the Republican party and in the Sessions-Trump wing specifically.

As for scapegoats--obviously Trump and Fox News are targeting Black Lives Matter and other civil rights activists as scapegoats here. And "Antifa". They're coming up with all kinds of fantasies about Obama and the Deep State every day.
Again, I think the distinction here is whether we are rating Republicans or the US as a whole.

US as a whole I went "no" if we are just talking Republicans then sure I agree it is a yes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by einbert
You don't think there was an extreme element of sexism inherent in the latest Presidential campaign? Come on.
Not really, no. "Extreme"?

Quote:
Originally Posted by einbert
Look at the details of RepubliCare. Look at their attacks on abortion and birth control.
I mean RepubliCare is an abomination, I can't argue with that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by einbert
Look at how they went after Hillary and how their how culture is built on attacking women.
I don't really know what you're talking about here w.r.t. "how their culture is built on attacking women" so you'll have to explain if you want me to respond to that one.

Regarding going after Hillary, she was the opponent. I'm not seeing how attacking her was sexist.

If we are just arguing about whether Trump himself is sexist then I mean sure, that much is obvious.

Quote:
Originally Posted by einbert
I could also point out that women make up the majority of the global proletariat right now and that number is rising, not sure if that has anything to do with it or not.
I have no idea what this means or how it is relevant to the situation in the US.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JacktheDumb
According to the reply s so far, if we ask this questions just for the GOP, would it be rated a fascist party?
If criteria for fascist party is that is checks a majority of the boxes then yes. If it needs almost all of the boxes (like 11 or 12 of the 14) then probably not.
07-06-2017 , 05:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by microbet
I don't know how liberal the EU is unless you mean in the Euro sense where liberal means corporate friendly.

The one good exception, I hope, is I expect the EU to care more about environmental protection.
At least Germany, which is the only one I am familiar with, has much stronger protections for consumers (e.g. data privacy, right to be forgotten), for workers and unions (both collective bargaining laws and vacation \ family leave policies), and actually enforces antitrust laws (e.g. Microsoft and Google)
07-06-2017 , 05:13 PM
An International Brotherhood of White Grievance
Trump's alt-right speech in Poland redefined the West in nativist terms, eschewing democratic idealism in favor of "blood and soil" nationalism.
https://newrepublic.com/article/1437...hite-grievance

Quote:
I don't really know what you're talking about here w.r.t. "how their culture is built on attacking women" so you'll have to explain if you want me to respond to that one.

Regarding going after Hillary, she was the opponent. I'm not seeing how attacking her was sexist.

If we are just arguing about whether Trump himself is sexist then I mean sure, that much is obvious.





[X] Fascism
[ ] Not Fascism
07-06-2017 , 05:17 PM
Only one of those three pictures contains sexism.

Also I'm still not clear on "how their culture is built on attacking women". Who is the "they"? Trumpkins? The GOP? People who don't like Hillary?


If you are just trying to get me to agree that a lot of Trump supporters are also sexist or something I'm right there with you, maybe we are just differing on the line for "extreme sexism".
07-06-2017 , 05:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Huehuecoyotl
Trump's speech in Poland "An International Brotherhood of White Grievance"
Quote:
“The fundamental question of our time is whether the West has the will to survive,” he said. “Do we have the confidence in our values to defend them at any cost? Do we have enough respect for our citizens to protect our borders? Do we have the desire and the courage to preserve our civilization in the face of those who would subvert and destroy it?” Later, he evoked Poland’s wartime resistance to Nazism and Soviet communism. “The memories of those who perished in the Warsaw Uprising cry out across the decades,” he said. “Those heroes remind us that the West was saved with the blood of patriots; that each generation must rise up and play their part in its defense and that every foot of ground, and every last inch of civilization, is worth defending with your life.”

07-06-2017 , 05:22 PM
The GOP:

The alt-right hates women as much as it hates people of colour
https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...right-abortion

Before "alt-right is just a weak group," actually, we have an Alt Right President.
07-06-2017 , 05:24 PM
there exists sexism for sure.

the question is how strong it is. for example sarah palin was highly popular 2010 among the gop.

PRINCETON, NJ -- Former Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin is the best known and most positively rated of five possible contenders for the 2012 Republican presidential nomination. Her 76% favorable rating among Republicans is higher than those for Mike Huckabee, Newt Gingrich, Mitt Romney, and Bobby Jindal.

http://www.gallup.com/poll/141341/pa...thers-gop.aspx
07-06-2017 , 05:27 PM
That's not helping your case.
07-06-2017 , 05:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by einbert
The GOP:

The alt-right hates women as much as it hates people of colour
https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...right-abortion

Before "alt-right is just a weak group," actually, we have an Alt Right President.
I don't have time to read this now but I will get back to you tomorrow probably.
07-06-2017 , 05:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by aflametotheground
there exists sexism for sure.

the question is how strong it is. for example sarah palin was highly popular 2010 among the gop.

PRINCETON, NJ -- Former Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin is the best known and most positively rated of five possible contenders for the 2012 Republican presidential nomination. Her 76% favorable rating among Republicans is higher than those for Mike Huckabee, Newt Gingrich, Mitt Romney, and Bobby Jindal.

http://www.gallup.com/poll/141341/pa...thers-gop.aspx
sarah palin was a beauty contest winner. THAT'S why they liked her.

      
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