To bloviate and whine, obv.

I think a lot of people are talking past each other because they are not distinguishing whether they are talking about GOP politicians or GOP voters.

aflametotheground, whatever the point he is making may be, seems to be talking about the voters. Here you are clearly talking about the politicians.

This is interesting. Obviously everything the follows is only my very non-expert opinion.

1. Powerful and Continuing Nationalism - Fascist regimes tend to make constant use of patriotic mottos, slogans, symbols, songs, and other paraphernalia. Flags are seen everywhere, as are flag symbols on clothing and in public displays.

I'm not really sure I agree that patriotism always equals nationalism, but clearly this is present in the US.

2. Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights - Because of fear of enemies and the need for security, the people in fascist regimes are persuaded that human rights can be ignored in certain cases because of "need." The people tend to look the other way or even approve of torture, summary executions, assassinations, long incarcerations of prisoners, etc.

This is clearly present, although again this seems like an over-simplification. I would agree that there could theoretically be a situation in which it would be acceptable to violate someone's human rights.

3. Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause - The people are rallied into a unifying patriotic frenzy over the need to eliminate a perceived common threat or foe: racial , ethnic or religious minorities; liberals; communists; socialists, terrorists, etc.

I would argue not present. Certainly there is an element within the United States that is doing this, but I do not think it is a majority and I would not call it unifying.

4. Supremacy of the Military - Even when there are widespread
domestic problems, the military is given a disproportionate amount of government funding, and the domestic agenda is neglected. Soldiers and military service are glamorized.

Yes, obviously.

5. Rampant Sexism - The governments of fascist nations tend to be almost exclusively male-dominated. Under fascist regimes, traditional gender roles are made more rigid. Divorce, abortion and homosexuality are suppressed and the state is represented as the ultimate guardian of the family institution.

Not really.

6. Controlled Mass Media - Sometimes to media is directly controlled by the government, but in other cases, the media is indirectly controlled by government regulation, or sympathetic media spokespeople and executives. Censorship, especially in war time, is very common.

No.

7. Obsession with National Security - Fear is used as a motivational tool by the government over the masses.

Yes.

8. Religion and Government are Intertwined - Governments in fascist nations tend to use the most common religion in the nation as a tool to manipulate public opinion. Religious rhetoric and terminology is common from government leaders, even when the major tenets of the religion are diametrically opposed to the government's policies or actions.

Yes.

9. Corporate Power is Protected - The industrial and business aristocracy of a fascist nation often are the ones who put the government leaders into power, creating a mutually beneficial business/government relationship and power elite.

10. Labor Power is Suppressed - Because the organizing power of labor is the only real threat to a fascist government, labor unions are either eliminated entirely, or are severely suppressed.

Yes.

11. Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts - Fascist nations tend to promote and tolerate open hostility to higher education, and academia. It is not uncommon for professors and other academics to be censored or even arrested. Free expression in the arts and letters is openly attacked.

No.

12. Obsession with Crime and Punishment - Under fascist regimes, the police are given almost limitless power to enforce laws. The people are often willing to overlook police abuses and even forego civil liberties in the name of patriotism. There is often a national police force with virtually unlimited power in fascist nations.

If it just said "obsession with crime and punishment" I would've gone yes but the wording of "limitless power" and "unlimited power" is going to make me go no.

13. Rampant Cronyism and Corruption - Fascist regimes almost always are governed by groups of friends and associates who appoint each other to government positions and use governmental power and authority to protect their friends from accountability. It is not uncommon in fascist regimes for national resources and even treasures to be appropriated or even outright stolen by government leaders.

I wouldn't say it is rampant although under Trump maybe.

14. Fraudulent Elections - Sometimes elections in fascist nations are a complete sham. Other times elections are manipulated by smear campaigns against or even assassination of opposition candidates, use of legislation to control voting numbers or political district boundaries, and manipulation of the media. Fascist nations also typically use their judiciaries to manipulate or control elections.

Our elections definitely have some problems but I would not call them fraudulent.

So I guess I went yes on 7/14 (maybe 8? I'm not sure on #13) but honestly most of the answers would not have been different pre-Trump.

All of those long posts were meant to say "stop crying"? Who was it directed at? I don't think I've done much crying.

I'm not saying your posts have no merit but they are 1) repetitive and 2) it's really unclear how they fit into the thread about Trump.

Disagree. It's how we choose to prioritize our moral foundations, and a lot of that is based on our own knowledge and information.

For a long time I was on the side of the "just-world" view. I grew up in a very conservative Christian household. I attended a very diverse city high school. I spent 8 years after college living in that neighborhood, with Section 8 housing across the alley, crack vials and drug needles in the driveway, gunshots almost daily, etc. I worked at a nearby bank for 6 years where the first of every month was nicknamed "Mother's Day" because that's when the welfare checks came in the mail and we spent all day long cashing them. I was in favor of restricting welfare benefits, enacting a lifetime limit on them, requiring a job for people to get other benefits - all the standard GOP views. I voted mostly Republican up through 2008. My wife sent me one of those "who should you vote for" surveys and my views at that time were very Libertarian.

In the past several years as I have become more informed about the systemic racism in American institutions, from government to finance to education to police to everything else; and more aware and informed about the issues of wealth inequality; and have more understanding of just how oppressive most of the 1% and big corporations' policies are toward their employees and "regular" Americans, I have moved drastically left in my views on what we need to do going forward. My faith and my morals have not changed. I don't think my brain has (drastically) changed. I just don't believe anymore that people are where they "deserve" to be, or that society in general will resolve these issues without major government involvement.

Fake news???

bummer

"...were more respectful toward the right."

If aflame won't touch this we should fill it in for him. Most accurate answer wins.

A+

Ya, microbet nailed it in one.

Oroku$aki again is desperate for my attention. Seems to be a trend with this guy. Hes going into my filter this time, so i suggest he converse with those around here that find him interresting, i dont.

Re: 14 warning signs of fascism:

3 is a yes. Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause - Calling the media "the enemy of the people" obviously ticks this one yes. Also Obama/Hillary/Democrats/Mexicans/Muslims.

11 (attack on scholars and intellectuals) is a yes, although Trump hasn't been successful in converting this into policy yet. but anti-intellectualism has been an ongoing thing among the right for some time now.

12 (obsession with crime and punishment) is also a yes. Sessions reopening the war on drugs, Trump extending ICE and CBP powers to be almost unlimited--in terms of motivation they're there and the only thing holding them back is constitutional restraint. For now.

14 (fraudulent elections) - our elections are very good for now, but clearly this is under attack as well on several fronts.

Even if you're making an argument that the current government hasn't succeeded in realizing these fascist tendencies, they clearly are pursuing them. Which is no less reason to be concerned.

My aunt and her 1500+ Beanie Babies would like a word

I interpreted the thresholds for these a bit differently I think, esp. regarding 3.

Clearly there is a significant element within the US demonizing oppositions but I said no because I don't think that element is a majority and the warning sign contains the word "unifying".

11 kind of similar. There are definitely people in the US attacking scholars or whatever but it's definitely not a majority of people, and probably fewer people than are covered by #3.

12 fair enough maybe. As I said when I read the title I was definitely going "yes" but I don't think that the police in the US have anything really approaching "unlimited power".


I'm not trying to make any kind of argument; I just thought it was interesting and reacted to it as I read it.

lol @ this pussy. I haven't even turned the screw and he wants no part of this. Back to the drawing board, Ivan.

Re: Fraudulent Elections

-Voter ID laws since 2011 have been blatantly discriminating and preventing people from having an equal say
-Since 2013, Voting Rights Act preclearance has been overturned and some red states have gone totally buck wild in coming in with crazy new ways to suppress the vote.
-Sessions's DOJ is now dropping Voter ID lawsuits.
-President Trump now has an active commission into "Voter Fraud" which is a set-up to suppress more votes.
-We'll have to wait to find out the full story on Russian interference into our elections and collusion with the Trump campaign, but it's looking very possible that the 2016 election result wasn't legitimate in any real sense of the word.

Yeah all of those are a clear "Yes" for me. Obsession with crime and punishment has been going on for a long time and a lot of that was bipartisan, but now it's very centered in the Republican party and in the Sessions-Trump wing specifically.

As for scapegoats--obviously Trump and Fox News are targeting Black Lives Matter and other civil rights activists as scapegoats here. And "Antifa". They're coming up with all kinds of fantasies about Obama and the Deep State every day.

You don't think there was an extreme element of sexism inherent in the latest Presidential campaign? Come on.

Look at the details of RepubliCare. Look at their attacks on abortion and birth control. Look at how they went after Hillary and how their how culture is built on attacking women. I could also point out that women make up the majority of the global proletariat right now and that number is rising, not sure if that has anything to do with it or not.

According to the reply s so far, if we ask this questions just for the GOP, would it be rated a fascist party?

This is correct. Miller is a psychopathic moron, and he writes Trump's speeches. Trump is so dumb that he doesn't even have his own views, he adopts those of the punk ass troll ***** who writes his speeches.

That's not real right?

never had more contempt and hatred for a living person in my life, just unbelievable

I think you are somewhat correct, they can be altered throughout your life to some degree. I dont know to what extent that is possible but im pretty sure they arent 100% static and do evolve. For example we create for ourselves personal narratives throughut our lives about who we are and where we are going, these might influence these foundations. However its a bit too simple to say that we can simply "choose" which ones we want to focus on, thats stretching it quite too far.


But why dont you rather just tell us about what your thoughts and ideas were when you were a republican. I would find that pretty interresting.

I took it down based on the source, pending further confirmation.

I´d say no, put that there can actually be doubt with that question is telling enough.

If not for the date of four months ago, I might have actually believed it.