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The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: No smocking guns. The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: No smocking guns.

07-01-2017 , 04:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 13ball
I don't disagree with anything you are saying, but some of the more common post-election analysis has been that Dems need to appeal more to rural and suburban (AKA white) voters. But there's no need to convince anyone. The people are already convinced, but they just don't vote.

If only 20% of eligible voters in big cities vote, then that tells me that get-out-the-vote efforts are fundamentally broken. A new approach is needed and everything that passes legal scrutiny should be considered. Tech and big data can only help so much here--you need people in the community to change their attitudes towards voting. You need organizers who know about the science of motivation. Learn how to nudge people into the behavior that you want.

People will always think that the candidate sucks and the government sucks, but that doesn't matter if you can get them to think that the act of voting is a good thing.
Make voting easier, through a bill to set up automatic voter registration, lock in early voting procedures that are easy, and maybe some sort of online voting system with like two-step verification - although that's a tough sell right now after the Russia hack. Package it all up as fraud prevention though, and even include a voter ID if we're going to register people automatically. Even just preventing the GOP from whining about voter ID is +EV for Democrats.

It's time to be creative and think outside the box, though. The Democrats or just the left in general needs a group of the best minds thinking about how to increase voter turnout, how to best use data, how to attack the Republicans from new angles (and avoid getting freerolled on policy debates), how to create policies that better distribute Democratic voters, how to recruit better candidates, and so on...
07-01-2017 , 04:31 PM
Don't package it as fraud prevention because that would surrender the point to the GOP when they're clearly wrong/lying.
07-01-2017 , 05:01 PM
Sounds like lobbying which is constitutionally protected.
07-01-2017 , 05:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cuserounder
I'm not sure which thread I posted it in, but I think that in the longterm, the Democrats should look at creating a policy platform that boosts the population of Sun Belt cities. Las Vegas nearly doubled in population from 1990 to 2000 - going from a little over 250K to a little under 500K. If you added 250K people to Phoenix, and the new residents went 70-30 for Clinton, she'd have won Arizona. The Sun Belt is already experiencing a lot of population growth, and I think you could potentially bring Arizona, Texas and Georgia into play within 20 years. So I'm talking Phoenix, Las Vegas, Albuquerque, Dallas, Houston, Austin, New Orleans, Birmingham, Atlanta, Tampa, Orlando, etc...

I think a platform for drawing tech jobs to Sun Belt cities would be hugely +EV, and actually a good policy too to create some jobs in regions and cities where some of the out of work blue collar folks might be willing to live (you could give zero/low interest government loans to out of work folks who are relocating for a job or to start a business - with some requirements on the entrepreneurial loans).

So it could be framed as helping people transition into new jobs, be coupled with training programs, and have the added benefit electorally of better distributing some of the coastal liberal votes, especially from the next decade of college graduates.
Many sunbelt cities are ticking climate bombs. A long term plan to increase Phoenix's population seems incredibly unwise.
07-01-2017 , 05:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperUberBob
The thing that we need most to fight back is a cohesive narrative everybody can agree with. Say what you want about the right but they are organized behind a series of ideas that they all share. They're stupid ideas. But they're ideas that solidify the base and direct them to do serious damage.

What ideals do liberals all agree with? Not much. There's a lot of diversity among them. The ideals that liberals holds dear such as freedom and privacy are more abstract and subjective and mean different things to different groups within the ideology. There's so much variance within these ideas that it prevents people from combining their power and fighting back. To save the country, a simplified narrative needs to be formed and agreed upon by all.

In other words, we have to stop fighting among ourselves before we can fight anybody else.
if i ran the democratic party i would do two things:

first, i would immediately stop taking corporate/pac/big donor money today. when people make small donations, they feel like a part of the campaign and are therefore more likely to get involved, and are therefore much more likely to vote. but no one is going to donate $5 when it will just drown in a sea of dark money. in the democratic primary hillary only outraised bernie by $9 million, her $238 million to his $229, which proves the grassroots money could definitely replace the corporate and pac sources.

second, i would make medicare for all the signature party issue. healthcare is the biggest rip off in american history and the senate healthcare/tax cut bill has a 17% approval rating. trump's own base knows he's screwing them bigly on this issue, so democrats have a chance here to maybe convert some disgruntled rust belt trump voters by offering them a break on healthcare with medicare for all.

these are two simple issues that appeal to independents, democratic grassroots, and a decent portion of working-class trump voters. most people are sick of the corruption in both parties and no one wants to go bankrupt because they need healthcare. if 2016 proved anything it's that voters need a dumbed-down message, and an anti-corruption/medicare for all platform would give it to them.
07-01-2017 , 05:49 PM
^ make this guy the head of the DNC.
07-01-2017 , 05:50 PM
Those are good ideas and I like the idea of corporations having less influence over the party, but you also have to realize that we have to have money from somewhere. You cannot expect to just win against the Koch Bros. and all their billions and all their networks with $20 donations from school teachers and union steel workers.
07-01-2017 , 05:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by OmgGlutten!
^ make this guy the head of the DNC.
I second the motion.
07-01-2017 , 05:52 PM
The Democratic party needs to make a tangible case that it can improve peoples' lives in a material way. Not by protecting the status quo, but by advancing big new agendas. Universal Healthcare in some form absolutely should be the backbone of that and the main part of their platform. Automatic Voter Registration too, as well as a renewed call for labor rights. Let's make some major reforms and get back to a position where workers have a chance to negotiate at the table. Getting unions healthy again would give us more freedom to take less corporate money.
07-01-2017 , 05:54 PM
it seems like significantly higher taxes for the 1% and lower taxes for working Americans could be a winning strategy.

Somehow the DNC never thought of it.

This is not rocket science. Commercial begins:

"Under my tax plan, a wife who is a nurse and a husband who is a fireman with two kids will save around $6,500 more in taxes next year. We have to start forcing the billionaire tax cheats to pay their fair share."

I mean, talk racism all you want, but it is pretty fricking hard for even a Klan member to pass up $6,500 year. I would play that card against Trump's Wall any day of the week.
07-01-2017 , 06:02 PM
We could start by not taking money from companies that profit from private prison labor:

13 Mainstream Corporations Benefiting from the Prison Industrial Complex
http://atlantablackstar.com/2014/10/...trial-complex/
Quote:
Prison labor in the United States is referred to as insourcing. Under the Work Opportunity Tax Credit (WOTC), employers receive a tax credit of $2,400 for every work-release inmate they employ as a reward for hiring “risky target groups.”

The workers are not only cheap labor, but they are considered easier to control. They also tend to be African-American males. Companies are free to avoid providing benefits like health insurance or sick days. They also don’t need to worry about unions, demands for vacation time, raises or family issues.

According to the Left Business Observer, “the federal prison industry produces 100 percent of all military helmets, war supplies and other equipment. The workers supply 98 percent of the entire market for equipment assembly services; 93 percent of paints and paintbrushes; 92 percent of stove assembly; 46 percent of body armor; 36 percent of home appliances; 30 percent of headphones/microphones/speakers; and 21 percent of office furniture. Airplane parts, medical supplies and much more: prisoners are even raising seeing-eye dogs for blind people.”

With all of that productivity, the inmates make about 90 cents to $4 a day.

Here are some of the biggest corporations to use such practices, but there are hundreds more:
  1. Whole Foods
  2. McDonald’s
  3. Wendy's
  4. Wal-Mart
  5. Starbucks
  6. Sprint
  7. Verizon
  8. Victoria's Secret
  9. Fidelity Investments
  10. JCPenney
  11. KMart
  12. American Airlines
  13. Avis
07-01-2017 , 06:02 PM
I think the timing is right for single payer/medicare for all and the Dems should hit it hard.
07-01-2017 , 06:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by microbet
I think the timing is right for single payer/medicare for all and the Dems should hit it hard.
That also involves us hitting the Dems hard. We have to make it clear that this particular issue IS a purity test, and every Democratic candidate must support it no matter what.

We need to get a real bill on the table and start forcing people to sign onto it like we're friggin Grover Norquist.
07-01-2017 , 06:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by OmgGlutten!
it seems like significantly higher taxes for the 1% and lower taxes for working Americans could be a winning strategy.

Somehow the DNC never thought of it.

This is not rocket science. Commercial begins:

"Under my tax plan, a wife who is a nurse and a husband who is a fireman with two kids will save around $6,500 more in taxes next year. We have to start forcing the billionaire tax cheats to pay their fair share."

I mean, talk racism all you want, but it is pretty fricking hard for even a Klan member to pass up $6,500 year. I would play that card against Trump's Wall any day of the week.
I agree and we have to be forceful about it.
07-01-2017 , 06:12 PM
Let's massively downsize the prison system (release nonviolent offenders) and give the working class and poor a huge tax cut.
07-01-2017 , 06:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by einbert
Let's massively downsize the prison system (release nonviolent offenders) and give the working class and poor a huge tax cut.
Political suicide.

No matter how sensible and rational it is, it'll be spun as being weak on crime/security/whatever else people want to say.

I would love to see our military downsized but that will never happen.
07-01-2017 , 06:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by einbert
Those are good ideas and I like the idea of corporations having less influence over the party, but you also have to realize that we have to have money from somewhere. You cannot expect to just win against the Koch Bros. and all their billions and all their networks with $20 donations from school teachers and union steel workers.
Agree that the DNC can't ban corporate money when the other guys are still receiving it. So ban it for everybody.

I don't know a ton about the effort, but there's a group called Wolf PAC trying to pass a constitutional amendment to that effect.
07-01-2017 , 06:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperUberBob
Political suicide.

No matter how sensible and rational it is, it'll be spun as being weak on crime/security/whatever else people want to say.

I would love to see our military downsized but that will never happen.
Both of these ideas are almost unique to America.
07-01-2017 , 06:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by LFS
Agree that the DNC can't ban corporate money when the other guys are still receiving it. So ban it for everybody.

I don't know a ton about the effort, but there's a group called Wolf PAC trying to pass a constitutional amendment to that effect.
I was gonna say you would need a constitutional amendment to get that, and the lobbying effort to defeat it might be the biggest lobbying effort in history (because it would essentially end lobbying in the United States).
07-01-2017 , 06:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperUberBob
Political suicide.

No matter how sensible and rational it is, it'll be spun as being weak on crime/security/whatever else people want to say.

I would love to see our military downsized but that will never happen.
Okay someone at the debate says I'm weak on security. I counter with no actually most of these guys are nonviolent drug offenders, and we have the most wasteful and biggest prison system in the world. This is an absolute joke, and this money should be spent on the well-being of American citizens. Drug use should be treated as a public health issue, not a criminal issue. We need total sentencing reform because right now people are getting locked up for years and decades for very little reason, and it's all going to feed this giant prison-industrial complex. People know about the complex at this point, they know it's ****ed up, they know it's a giant mistake. We just have to actively engage on the issue in an organized political way.
07-01-2017 , 06:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by einbert
Okay someone at the debate says I'm weak on security. I counter with no actually most of these guys are nonviolent drug offenders, and we have the most wasteful and biggest prison system in the world. This is an absolute joke, and this money should be spent on the well-being of American citizens. Drug use should be treated as a public health issue, not a criminal issue. We need total sentencing reform because right now people are getting locked up for years and decades for very little reason, and it's all going to feed this giant prison-industrial complex. People know about the complex at this point, they know it's ****ed up, they know it's a giant mistake. We just have to actively engage on the issue in an organized political way.
First off, the majority of people don't give a **** about prisoners or the prison system. Those that wish for reform are already in the liberal's corner and are likely pretty active.

Everybody else's eyes just glazed over.

Recent studies claim that an average person's attention span is 8 seconds. Trump appealed to people because his statements during the campaign were very suitable for those 8 second bits. His comments were simple and easy to remember. If you can alliterate that opinion or make it rhyme, that would be great since it is easier for us to remember alliteration and rhymes than complex sentences.

It totally sucks that we as a society have resorted to this. But people don't make use of what they are able to do and become mentally weak as a result.
07-01-2017 , 06:50 PM





That last piece of brilliance is currently the 45th President's pinned Tweet. Jesus.
07-01-2017 , 06:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperUberBob
First off, the majority of people don't give a **** about prisoners or the prison system. Those that wish for reform are already in the liberal's corner and are likely pretty active.

Everybody else's eyes just glazed over.

Recent studies claim that an average person's attention span is 8 seconds. Trump appealed to people because his statements during the campaign were very suitable for those 8 second bits. His comments were simple and easy to remember. If you can alliterate that opinion or make it rhyme, that would be great since it is easier for us to remember alliteration and rhymes than complex sentences.

It totally sucks that we as a society have resorted to this. But people don't make use of what they are able to do and become mentally weak as a result.
So you have to engage the culture directly. If the culture doesn't believe in human rights + democracy, the politics will naturally follow. We have to engage the culture, which means having the debate one way or another. Not having the debate just means ceding that territory to the enemy, who by the way are fascists with some pretty terrifying views.
07-01-2017 , 06:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperUberBob
First off, the majority of people don't give a **** about prisoners or the prison system. Those that wish for reform are already in the liberal's corner and are likely pretty active.

Everybody else's eyes just glazed over.

Recent studies claim that an average person's attention span is 8 seconds. Trump appealed to people because his statements during the campaign were very suitable for those 8 second bits. His comments were simple and easy to remember. If you can alliterate that opinion or make it rhyme, that would be great since it is easier for us to remember alliteration and rhymes than complex sentences.

It totally sucks that we as a society have resorted to this. But people don't make use of what they are able to do and become mentally weak as a result.
End the New Jim Crow.
http://newjimcrow.com/

Black Lives Matter.

Raise the Age
http://raisetheageny.com/

One Person, One Vote--end the Electoral College and get a new Voting Rights Act

Bail Reform
http://www.courtinnovation.org/topic/bail-reform
07-01-2017 , 06:56 PM
I call it Crooked James Crow, because it's slightly more sophisticated than Jim Crow but it's just as crooked and rotten!

      
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