I'm not suggesting anyone tone down the anger, simply that it be organized and directed and einbert's (glibly restated) point, something like "the Garland Gorsuch swap showed America is now invalid forever, it can't be undone, BE ANGRY" seems aimless. We have tons of aimless rage energy floating around in our civics right now. Put it to use on something. The allusion to The Deplorable Movement and how they have used their rage-driven powers is proof of the concern here: A bunch of inchoate rage is how you end up with exactly the Trump Administration, a bunch of poo flinging baboons who can't accomplish anything except long form trolls. That's not what we want to replicate and emulate.

I mean, an anecdote:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...=.b98bebd428ab

Our fight with one cable network has distracted from winning our battle with the other cable network.

These people. THE BEST PEOPLE.

Okay, so one thing I think we can do is be more specific about our politics and be more descriptive about what we actually want to do for people. I believe in Democratic Socialism, and to me that means building a community for all, rather than building a world that's based on profit and extracting as much value as possible for corporations. I believe in building things. I believe in building a Universal Health Care system that would support every American, and yes we would have to pay for it. Let's be honest about that and let's pay for it with mostly taxes on the very wealthy.

We need to professionalize and organize and build campaigns and even change the entire culture at the most basic level. I think our culture is so far away from "working together to build a better community" that we have to start there. When you're this far from power, you change the culture first, and the politics will follow after that.

Now having said all that, there's nothing wrong with simply massive protests. I think they're a big part of the picture here. I do think our protestors need to be more trained, more prepared, and ready to deal with various levels of agitation + violence, whether it comes from counter-protestors, the police, or other. "Protesting" needs to be professionalized.

I don't know what the answer is. These are good questions. All I know is I want to build something very very different from what we see today as the United States.

Sure, I agree with that. I was just taking issue with the idea that democrats self - segregated when in fact it's nearly the exact opposite. White conservatives violently segregated black voters, and then, when that became untenable, segregated themselves, with enthusiastic government support, into white enclaves outside major cities.

A world where southern blacks had the full protections of the VRA before the great migration is an interesting counterfactual.

Vigorous enforcement of anti-discrimination laws and non-partisan redistricting together would make the current Republican coalition almost completely irrelevant in a decade or so. But that will basically never happen in our lifetimes. Even wholly Democratic-controlled areas are disinterested in the first part of that.

The conclusion he wants you to draw is that you're supposed to go out and hurt or kill people who support Trump. It's not that subtle.

It's very telling that so far, the only groups able to really mount proper protests against RepubliCare have been disabled people. The only reason they're able to do so is because they don't work full time so they escape part of that American anxiety nightmare. Next time around, a lot of these people won't be able to protest because they'll be tucked away in institutions of some sort or at a hospice somewhere dying from lack of drugs/treatment.

Yeah, because posting pictures of giant peaceful protests and telling people to organize and build political campaigns against this is really advocating violence. Wait, what?

The thing that we need most to fight back is a cohesive narrative everybody can agree with. Say what you want about the right but they are organized behind a series of ideas that they all share. They're stupid ideas. But they're ideas that solidify the base and direct them to do serious damage.

What ideals do liberals all agree with? Not much. There's a lot of diversity among them. The ideals that liberals holds dear such as freedom and privacy are more abstract and subjective and mean different things to different groups within the ideology. There's so much variance within these ideas that it prevents people from combining their power and fighting back. To save the country, a simplified narrative needs to be formed and agreed upon by all.

In other words, we have to stop fighting among ourselves before we can fight anybody else.

You've already said that there's no electoral remedy to the problems you see though, so what are you wanting to organize for exactly?

That's because neoliberal centrists such as the moderates that control the Democratic party really don't stand for anything. They want to defend the status quo, maybe they want to touch around the edges with some new Civil Rights laws here and there. We need a true Socialist project to take over the Democratic party if we want to be able to offer people anything tangible. A powerful and robust pacakge of voting rights, labor rights, and civil rights that would totally transform this country. There's a reason it's hard to sell technocratic neoliberal bull****: it's complicated, it's still a way to funnel wealth to the 0.1%, and it's not offering anybody anything new or anything that is really working for the benefit of the full community.

There's a reason it's hard to sell socialism right now: the culture and laws are so so far afield from even basic labor protections, people have no idea what that would or could look like. It's our job to go out there and tell people and spark their imaginations. Help somebody directly and show them what it looks like from a practical standpoint. Build a community garden. Start a project in your community. Run for office. We have to change the culture before we can hope to actually gain real power.

Admitting the truth and advocating for a violent remedy are two different things. At this point I'm saying we need to work hard to build an electoral remedy, but also realize that we may be past that point. If we are, we need to know.

Like for example, if we are past electoral ways to e.g. remove Trump, massive peaceful protests might be some kind of path forward. It's a time to get creative and get active. One thing we can't afford to do is do nothing.

Another nonviolent remedy can be direct action which can take many forms including industrial sabotage. You see this when protestors block highways for example, to block the flow of capital into or out of a location. This could be a big part of the puzzle.

Here's Jimmy Hoffa from the movie Hoffa, actively working to change the culture by meeting somebody in the REAL WORLD, engaging in a radical dialogue with him, and then engaging him in direct action (a strike against his bosses):

Yeah. Impeachment sounds great, but then you realize it mostly just gets rid of the tweets. Single payer would be easier probably and while the term causes a reaction that hurts in the polls (33% support), 60% of people think the feds are responsible for ensuring healthcare for all Americans.

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank...-by-democrats/

As you say it's hard to organize working people who can get fired and miss mortgage payments. On the one side you get the super rich who have spare time and money and on the other you get students mostly and if the moment broadens (like 1968) you get people who feel they have little to lose.

Seems like Nurses Union is pretty badass and if anyone can pull off national demonstrations around single payer, I think they are it.

Gizmo?

Not entirely relevant and I don't mean to entirely dismiss electoral politics, but "power" reminded me of the quote below from The Fourth Declaration of the Lacandón Jungle, Jan 1, 1996.

Protests are not the answer.

The solutions are (in this order);

1) run for a government position, local or national;
2) volunteer for someone running;
3) help voter mobilization campaigns;
4) donate as much money as you can to said candidates;
5) join political organizations;
6) call your congress person on every issue so your voice is counted; and
7) join the debate OUTSIDE your bubble.

OK, well if I misunderstood you, I apologize. Protests and community gardens sound terrific.

Liberals and leftists need to study and understand POWER. It's not enough to be morally right. We have to actually be able to effect real change in the real world, and that means gaining real power.

What happened in the uk was a group called http://www.peoplesmomentum.com momentum did all the hard boring work of organising that no regular person has time to do all the while being called loony lefties and derided by basically everyone (including me honestly) small groups of insanely (in a almost a real sense) commited people with a clear and shared vision. A leftist tea party you need people willing to do hugely -ev effortful things for a long time before everyone else (me) jumps on at the end for the credit.

There's a group like that starting to organize here:

http://www.dsausa.org/

By all means, join your local DSA chapter and work to organize direct action and support campaigns at every level!

Join this free webinar coming up:

http://www.dsausa.org/jul-6-2017-at_8pm_20170706
*Free but you gotta join and pay dues. A normal membership is $45/year, student membership/young DSA is $20/year, etc.

you also talk about a anger problem in your other post,

in america i would say that the way to decrease it is by not moralizing everything and by having more tolerance for the other side. i think people apply too high standards to what gouvernment they want, so i think some ppl need to have a look at whats going on in the rest of the world. failed states, violent conflicts, undemocratic gouvernments/dictatorships etc. i think the US is not that bad compared, but yes it has flaws.

basically coexistence is very hard. and it becomes alot harder when everyone thinks that their own side is always "right" and the others are always "wrong". the world is more complex than that. i think a trait of people that strive to be well informed should be tolerance for those who are different, and not condemning everyone they cant understand. and yes thats unfortunate because it means we have to compromise in a democracy, but everything is better than a civil war which is the alternative to coexistence.

also i think people around here overestimate how much truth comes out of a partisan mileu like this forum. we value intellect and research on the left wing, but alot of whats going on in this forum is the opposite of that. humans have built in biases that is hard to overcome, especially when it comes to political questions. for example we know that people will experience significant cognitive distress if their preferred political figure is somehow compromised, and people will strive with all their force to explain it away by rationalizing. and when able to dismiss whatever negative trait or story they will get rewarded with a shot of dopamine. further we also know that more intelligent people are not less prone than less intelligent people to a number of political biases. we are foolig ourselves alot, basically. i think recognizing that we arent perfect ourselves is a good start.

but on the anger thing, on a observational viewpoint i would say that political figures that want more prominence or votes are likely rewarded by being controversial publicly. politics in my country is pretty low key, but once in a while someone wants to come out and be controversial, and then heat rises dramatically. also of course the media is part of the problem, they are probably getting alot more ratings when talking about controversial issues.

so overall i would say that there are different actors that have a job to do. and people need to be aware of partisanship gone overboard, as well as people that are lacking tolerance, they arent very useful.

Civil war is by definition not "worse than anything."