Open Side Menu Go to the Top
Register
The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: No smocking guns. The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: No smocking guns.

06-30-2017 , 11:03 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trolly McTrollson
Dems have won the popular vote in six of the past seven elections, but yeah, they just suck at selling themselves to the Anerican people.
http://www.redistrictingmajorityproject.com/?p=646
Quote:
2010 State Elections: REDMAP’s Execution

As the 2010 Census approached, the RSLC began planning for the subsequent election cycle, formulating a strategy to keep or win Republican control of state legislatures with the largest impact on congressional redistricting as a result of reapportionment. That effort, the REDistricting MAjority Project (REDMAP), focused critical resources on legislative chambers in states projected to gain or lose congressional seats in 2011 based on Census data.

The rationale was straightforward: Controlling the redistricting process in these states would have the greatest impact on determining how both state legislative and congressional district boundaries would be drawn. Drawing new district lines in states with the most redistricting activity presented the opportunity to solidify conservative policymaking at the state level and maintain a Republican stronghold in the U.S. House of Representatives for the next decade.

To fund the initiative, the RSLC raised more than $30 million in 2009-2010, and invested $18 million after Labor Day 2010 alone. Specifically, the RSLC:

Spent $1.4 million targeting four New York State Senate seats, winning two and control of the New York State Senate. (-2 Congressional seats).
Spent nearly $1 million in Pennsylvania House races, targeting and winning three of the toughest races in the state. (-1 Congressional seat).
Spent nearly $1 million in Ohio House races, targeting six seats, five of which were won by Republicans. Notably, President Obama carried five of these six legislative districts in 2008. (-2 Congressional seats).
Spent $1 million in Michigan working with the Michigan House Republican Campaign Committee and Michigan Republican Party to pick up 20 seats. (-1 Congressional seat).
Spent $750,000 in Texas as part of an effort that resulted in 22 House pick-ups. (+4 Congressional seats).
Spent $1.1 million in Wisconsin to take control of the Senate and Assembly.
Committed resources to Colorado (more than $550,000) and North Carolina (more than $1.2 million).
The RSLC also invested more than $3 million across a number of other states including Illinois, Indiana, Iowa, Kentucky, Maine, Nevada, New Hampshire, New Jersey, Oregon, Tennessee and Washington. (Five of these eleven states gained or lost Congressional seats).

Election Day 2010 proved to be a “wave” election nationally, in both REDMAP targeted states and others across the country. Prior to Election Day 2010, Democrats controlled 60 state legislative chambers to the Republicans’ 36. After the 2010 elections, Democrats controlled 40 chambers, Republicans controlled 55 chambers, and two remained tied. In all, Republicans took control of 21 legislative bodies and moved one from Democratic control to being evenly divided. After Election Day 2010, Republicans held majorities in both legislative chambers in 25 states – and, in most cases, control of redistricting – up from 14. The result can clearly be seen in the following chart showing partisan control over redistricting from 1980 to 2010:

[...]

2012 Congressional Elections: REDMAP’s Impact

President Obama won reelection in 2012 by nearly 3 points nationally, and banked 126 more electoral votes than Governor Mitt Romney. Democratic candidates for the U.S. House won 1.1 million more votes than their Republican opponents. But the Speaker of the U.S. House of Representatives is a Republican and presides over a 33-seat House Republican majority during the 113th Congress. How? One needs to look no farther than four states that voted Democratic on a statewide level in 2012, yet elected a strong Republican delegation to represent them in Congress: Michigan, Ohio, Pennsylvania and Wisconsin.

Michigan

The effectiveness of REDMAP is perhaps most clear in the state of Michigan. In 2010, the RSLC put $1 million into state legislative races, contributing to a GOP pick-up of 20 seats in the House and Republican majorities in both the House and Senate. Republican Rick Snyder won the gubernatorial race, and with it Republicans gained control of redrawing Michigan’s 148 legislative and 14 congressional districts. The 2012 election was a huge success for Democrats at the statewide level in Michigan: voters elected a Democratic U.S. Senator by more than 20 points and reelected President Obama by almost 10 points. But Republicans at the state level maintained majorities in both chambers of the legislature and voters elected a 9-5 Republican majority to represent them in Congress.

Ohio

Ohio once again proved to be the national bellwether, voting to reelect President Obama to a second term in the White House by almost two points. On the statewide level, Ohioans also elected a Democrat to the U.S. Senate by more than five points. But the Republican firewall at the state legislative and congressional level held. In 2010, REDMAP allocated nearly $1 million to Ohio House races, resulting in a Republican take over of the House and increasing the GOP majority in the Senate. With the election of Republican John Kasich to the governor’s mansion, the GOP controlled the redrawing of 132 state legislative and 16 congressional districts. Republican redistricting resulted in a net gain for the GOP state House caucus in 2012, and allowed a 12-4 Republican majority to return to the U.S. House of Representatives – despite voters casting only 52 percent of their vote for Republican congressional candidates.

Pennsylvania

A REDMAP target state, the RSLC spent nearly $1 million in Pennsylvania House races in 2010 – an expenditure that helped provide the GOP with majorities in both chambers of the state legislature. Combined with former Republican Attorney General Tom Corbett’s victory in the gubernatorial race, Republicans took control of the state legislative and congressional redistricting process. The impact of this investment at the state level in 2010 is evident when examining the results of the 2012 election: Pennsylvanians reelected a Democratic U.S. Senator by nearly nine points and reelected President Obama by more than five points, but at the same time they added to the Republican ranks in the State House and returned a 13-5 Republican majority to the U.S. House.

Wisconsin

In 2010, the RSLC spent $1.1 million to successfully flip both chambers of the Wisconsin legislature. With the election of Republican Governor Scott Walker, the GOP gained control of the redistricting process and gave Wisconsinites and all of America a firsthand look at what bold conservative leadership looks like. In mid-2012, Democrats were able to regain control of the Wisconsin Senate, albeit for a period of time when the chamber was out of session. In November 2012, however, running on lines redrawn after the successes of 2010, Republicans were able to retake the Senate and add to their margins in the House. On a statewide level, in 2012, Wisconsin voters elected a Democratic U.S. Senator by nearly six points and reelected President Obama by nearly seven points, but still returned a 5-3 Republican majority to Congress, including the GOP vice presidential nominee, Representative Paul Ryan.
06-30-2017 , 11:06 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by einbert
It really is staggering how many people cannot accept the fact that our democracy is no longer legitimate.
I 100% agree with you that GOP ****ery has tilted the scales. However, I think we can take it back if we van eke out a 5-7 point win in the popular vote not including the ****ery. Not impossible.
06-30-2017 , 11:07 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by einbert
No, I'm calling you out for destroying our democracy. You pass these discriminatory Voter ID laws and then you expect us to just be all meek and **** after you cheat your way to power. No. We're not stupid. We're not your toys to be played with.
And this too. If you won't admit Voter ID laws have come about entirely for the purpose of electing republicans, you're dumb or lying.
06-30-2017 , 11:09 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by poconoder
State borders are not gerrymandered they have been in place for 100+ years. This means:

1 - Senate elections are not gerrymandered

2 - Governor elections are not gerrymandered

3 - Presidential elections using states as electoral districts are not gerrymandered

4 - the Dems have won 2 of the last 3 Presidential elections, the Dems have won 4 of the last 7 Presidential elections, clearly they can win when they sell themselves well.

Let's be honest, the problem you have is not with democracy, you have a problem with the fact that Democrats have not done well in selling themselves to the American people recently. The Democrats have failed you, not the process. You lost badly in 2014 and 2016 in the Senate, Governors and President. The only honest fix is to fix the Democratic Party and do better in 2018 and 2020.

But you take the whiners way out instead and blame the process. And you deserve to be called out on it.
Maybe you missed the part of our elections being wide open to Russian attack and Trump is (edit) doing nothing to stop it even taking steps to help them?

Nah, you didn't miss it. You're just a dishonest piece of trash. Stop defending this MONSTER in the White House. Many people are saying he's Vladimir Putin's cock holster.

Last edited by Our House; 06-30-2017 at 11:16 AM.
06-30-2017 , 11:09 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by iron81
I 100% agree with you that GOP ****ery has tilted the scales. However, I think we can take it back if we van eke out a 5-7 point win in the popular vote not including the ****ery. Not impossible.
I think we must try as hard as we can. But we must be prepared for the inevitable.
06-30-2017 , 11:18 AM
On Gerrymandering:

It's funny how the Dems won control of the House when they were winning elections and had control of the Senate and Presidency at the same time. If they really had a gerrymander problem that wouldn't happen. They can easily take it back in 2018 if they can sell themselves well. That's how you fix the problem there too.
06-30-2017 , 11:20 AM
On SCOTUS:

the constitution says both President and Senate must approve permanent SCOTUS appointments, it's been that way for over 225 years. Merrick Garland has as much right to a seat as Harriet Myers or Robert Bork do.
06-30-2017 , 11:21 AM
Okay, so you aren't the least bit interested in having an honest conversation. Got it, thanks for playing.
06-30-2017 , 11:22 AM
The Comrades are out in force today since that Wall Street Journal story dropped
06-30-2017 , 11:23 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Namath12
Yeah it's a very good read I recommend it
Slightly off topic, but but Namath and anyone else who enjoys long form journalism should be aware of this website. It does a great job of scouring the internet for the best long form pieces.

https://longform.org
06-30-2017 , 11:23 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trolly McTrollson
Dems have won the popular vote in six of the past seven elections, but yeah, they just suck at selling themselves to the Anerican people.
Both can be true. Actually, I think three things are simultaneously true:

1. long-standing Constitutional and systemic biases in the system favor Republicans; or more precisely, there's a decided systemic bias/advantage in favor of dominating sparsely populated areas or having your base relatively evenly geographically distributed even before factoring in gerrymandering. The Democrats are at a natural disadvantage having so many of our voters packed into cities and urban areas even if we were magically able to get some kind of federal non-partisan redistricting. For instance, gerrymandering didn't give 2 Senators to Wyoming and Alabama and 2 to California and New York. Blame Roger Sherman and the Constitutional convention for that bull****.

2. having said all that, the GOP is absolutely scamming everyone and tilting the scales with voter suppression and gerrymandering tactics to give themselves undue advantages

3. and yet, the Democrats are kinda hapless in a lot of ways such that even with the GOP's ham-handed scams and rigging the system, we should still be able to crush them since their actual goals and policies disproportionately favor so few people. Democrats and the left do own some of the responsibility for not being to able to successfully communicate that
06-30-2017 , 11:23 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by poconoder
On Gerrymandering:

It's funny how the Dems won control of the House when they were winning elections and had control of the Senate and Presidency at the same time. If they really had a gerrymander problem that wouldn't happen. They can easily take it back in 2018 if they can sell themselves well. That's how you fix the problem there too.
You republicans always argue as if there's no such thing as facts or history. The dems won in 2008 and then the GOP launched a large expensive gerrymandering and voter restriction effort for 2010.

This really happened.
06-30-2017 , 11:23 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by einbert
Okay, so you aren't the least bit interested in having an honest conversation. Got it, thanks for playing.
What about his past posting leads you to believe that he's anything other than a Trumpbot ****-stirrer?
06-30-2017 , 11:25 AM
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United...lections,_2012

when your party gets 1.4 million more votes than the other party but is still in the minority anyway
06-30-2017 , 11:25 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DVaut1
Both can be true. Actually, I think three things are simultaneously true:

1. long-standing Constitutional and systemic biases in the system favor Republicans; or more precisely, there's a decided systemic bias/advantage in favor of dominating sparsely populated areas or having your base relatively evenly geographically distributed even before factoring in gerrymandering. The Democrats are at a natural disadvantage having so many of our voters packed into cities and urban areas even if we were magically able to get some kind of federal non-partisan redistricting. Gerrymandering didn't give 2 Senators to Wyoming and Alabama and 2 to California and New York. Blame Roger Sherman and the Constitutional convention for that.

2. having said all that, the GOP is absolutely scamming everyone and tilting the scales with voter suppression and gerrymandering tactics to give themselves undue advantages

3. the Democrats are kinda hapless in a lot of ways such that even with the GOP's ham-handed scams and rigging the system, we should still be able to crush them since their actual goals and policies disproportionately favor so few people. Democrats and the left do own some of the responsibility for not being to able to successfully communicate that
Bingo. No matter what the Republicans do, Democrats shouldn't fall into the trap of thinking that they cannot and need not improve their messaging.
06-30-2017 , 11:25 AM
That redmap article I linked to is literally written by Republicans, telling other Republicans how effective and powerful their gerrymandering efforts have been at distorting the makeup of various legislatures. Believe their own words.
06-30-2017 , 11:25 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Our House
Morning Joe and Mika just told a story of how Trump has been blackmailing them with the threat of a bad story in the National Enquirer if they didn't call him up and bow to him. They said the Enquirer has been harassing Mika's teenage kids and the rest of them, following them around and they have been getting calls from top WH officials saying to just call the POTUS and it will all go away.
How petty and bizarre and menacing of them. The president is having members of media stalked now, that's nice.
06-30-2017 , 11:26 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DVaut1
Both can be true. Actually, I think three things are simultaneously true:

1. long-standing Constitutional and systemic biases in the system favor Republicans; or more precisely, there's a decided systemic bias/advantage in favor of dominating sparsely populated areas or having your base relatively evenly geographically distributed even before factoring in gerrymandering. The Democrats are at a natural disadvantage having so many of our voters packed into cities and urban areas even if we were magically able to get some kind of federal non-partisan redistricting. For instance, gerrymandering didn't give 2 Senators to Wyoming and Alabama and 2 to California and New York. Blame Roger Sherman and the Constitutional convention for that bull****.

2. having said all that, the GOP is absolutely scamming everyone and tilting the scales with voter suppression and gerrymandering tactics to give themselves undue advantages

3. and yet, the Democrats are kinda hapless in a lot of ways such that even with the GOP's ham-handed scams and rigging the system, we should still be able to crush them since their actual goals and policies disproportionately favor so few people. Democrats and the left do own some of the responsibility for not being to able to successfully communicate that
Sure but being hapless is not treason. Only the Republicans have actively attacked the United States.
06-30-2017 , 11:31 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DVaut1
Both can be true. Actually, I think three things are simultaneously true:

1. long-standing Constitutional and systemic biases in the system favor Republicans; or more precisely, there's a decided systemic bias/advantage in favor of dominating sparsely populated areas or having your base relatively evenly geographically distributed even before factoring in gerrymandering. The Democrats are at a natural disadvantage having so many of our voters packed into cities and urban areas even if we were magically able to get some kind of federal non-partisan redistricting. For instance, gerrymandering didn't give 2 Senators to Wyoming and Alabama and 2 to California and New York. Blame Roger Sherman and the Constitutional convention for that bull****.
The 585k residents of Wyoming get 2 Senators and 1 Representative

The 681k residents of DC get 0 Senators and 0 Representatives

Because **** you that's why
06-30-2017 , 11:32 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DVaut1
The Democrats are at a natural disadvantage having so many of our voters packed into cities and urban areas even if we were magically able to get some kind of federal non-partisan redistricting.
It's more specific than that. The one rule the courts have imposed on gerrymandering is that minorities are entitled to their own districts. So we get districts that are 50-60% minority. But white liberals live in thise districts too, so you wind up with maybe 75% D.

This is suboptimal for waging redistricting fights. This isn't GOP ****ery either, blue states do it too, because of the courts and a belief that minorities should have representation.
06-30-2017 , 11:32 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by poconoder
On SCOTUS:

the constitution says both President and Senate must approve permanent SCOTUS appointments, it's been that way for over 225 years. Merrick Garland has as much right to a seat as Harriet Myers or Robert Bork do.
Wrong.

Harriet Miers was withdrawn by Bush.¹
Robert Bork was rejected by the Senate.²
Merrick Garland was refused a hearing or vote.³

1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harriet_Miers
2. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Bork
3. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Merrick_Garland
06-30-2017 , 11:34 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by einbert
Sure but being hapless is not treason. Only the Republicans have actively attacked the United States.
I agree that on the moral continuum being bad and ineffective at politicking is better than being unsavory cheaters but we (collectively, the left and our party) aren't going to be able to berate the right into virtue and we can only control our own behavior, and our failures are one part of an important story about why unscrupulous people have so much power.
06-30-2017 , 11:35 AM
Oh I agree with that. We have to control our own behavior, and we have to face the fact that they've completely stolen our democracy and there is no electoral remedy.
06-30-2017 , 11:35 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by iron81
It's more specific than that. The one rule the courts have imposed on gerrymandering is that minorities are entitled to their own districts. So we get districts that are 50-60% minority. But white liberals live in thise districts too, so you wind up with maybe 75% D.

This is suboptimal for waging redistricting fights. This isn't GOP ****ery either, blue states do it too, because of the courts and a belief that minorities should have representation.
Again, arguing as if history didn't happen. The GOP ran an extensive, expensive and effective gerrymandering campaign. See North Carolina.
06-30-2017 , 11:37 AM
This isn't about shaming the right into being pro-democracy. I am long past that. This is about warning folks of what is coming. People might want to read up on the Cultural Revolution, Khmer Rouge, and the Reign of Terror/Redemption period in American history.

      
m