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The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: No smocking guns. The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: No smocking guns.

06-08-2017 , 10:11 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Our House
By keeping information private that could possibly be construed as obstruction, that Mueller is aware of, and that GOP in Congress will shrug off all of the time, they all get to keep their jobs. Not for selfish reasons, but because it's so much better for the country to have career individuals who are already working on a case, with ties to each other and the workers in their departments, than it is to have them fired and replaced by rubber stamping Trump loyalists.
This is a highly optimistic take and I hope it's correct. To watch them refuse to answer basic simple questions, which were not classified and by their own admission had no legit reason not to answer that bordered on contempt was highly concerning to me.
06-08-2017 , 10:15 AM
Everything is already there to impeach Trump, except the political will. Again, it's hilarious why the GOP doesn't just throw him under the bus and put Pence in.
06-08-2017 , 10:29 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Riverman
Whoever the **** is in charge of messaging for the Democrats should be taken out back. We are right on literally every single issue! Look at what these *******s are pursuing:

- taking away health care for 20+ million people
- gutting environmental regulation
- gutting financial regulation
- cutting hundreds of billions of taxes for .01%

And you still lose? To that agenda?
It's because 99% of Trump's base don't understand what's going on. They quite literally think the only ones who will be losing their insurance, medicaid, welfare, etc., are the lazy black and brown people. Then when they find out "Oh, wait... You mean I'm gonna lose MY MEDICAID TOO?!", that's when they care.

Yes, "we" are right on just about every issue, but it's not "we" that need to be convinced. It's the overwhelming majority of Republicans who vote against they're interest primarily because their racist and/or think none of this is gonna effect them.

I don't know why I'm laughed at or how no one else gets this. You need to overlook their racism or whatever other shortcomings they have long enough to court their votes and educate them on what all these Trumpian consequences will mean to them personally. Once we have their votes, then we can focus on getting them to fall in line with social reforms. Otherwise, calling them names will only entrench them and by the time they figure they're part of the "you're screwed too" club it will be too late for everyone.

Last edited by Lestat; 06-08-2017 at 10:42 AM.
06-08-2017 , 10:29 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by synth_floyd
Everything is already there to impeach Trump, except the political will. Again, it's hilarious why the GOP doesn't just throw him under the bus and put Pence in.
Donald Trump is exploiting the fatal flaw of the two-party system

Quote:
Because of the two-party system, Republicans are stuck with Donald Trump. If he goes down, they go down with him. There’s now no way for Republicans to advance conservative policy goals without also advancing Trump. And In this era of bipolar two-party tribal politics, no matter what Trump does, there’s always one thing worse for Republicans. Something even more unthinkable, something even more existentially frightening than Trump with his hand on the nuclear codes: Democrats having power.
Quote:
Whether motivated by power or by the existential righteousness of their moral cause (or more likely, by a complicated, self-justifying mix of both), Republican leaders continue to make the same craven calculus: It’s always better to dissemble than let Democrats have an edge. No matter what Trump does, no matter what line he crosses, they’ve made the same choice again and again. In two-party politics, a “pathological liar” is always better than a Democrat.
The thing you have to remember is that tossing Trump under the bus is not cost free for the GOP. Plenty of hardcore Trump partisans will be highly agitated and penalize the GOP for it, if only by staying home or whacking the traitors in primaries ala Cantor.

I am not apologizing for the Congressional GOP but the vice they are in is pretty clear.
06-08-2017 , 10:32 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JPantz
Let's have the recording then.
06-08-2017 , 10:38 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by synth_floyd
Everything is already there to impeach Trump, except the political will. Again, it's hilarious why the GOP doesn't just throw him under the bus and put Pence in.
There can only be one reason. Well, two actually. One is that the GOP has zero morals. The other is that they are afraid of pissing off Trump's base and losing their seat.

It would be interesting to compile a list of Republicans who could throw Trump under the bus relatively risk free politically. Sen. McCain is one. Even though Trump won AZ, McCain won by a higher margin than Trump did. So he really doesn't have to suck up to Trump (and afaik he does it less than most Republicans).
06-08-2017 , 10:39 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AllTheCheese
Let's have the recording then.
Comey just said he believed he (Trump) may well lie about their meetings

Last edited by superleeds; 06-08-2017 at 10:40 AM. Reason: there their ther'ye **** knows
06-08-2017 , 10:40 AM
If the GOP came up with a unified PR strategy, they could dump Trump, put Pence in there and not alienate the base. I mean they had one for the last 8 years with anti-Obama and anti-Obamacare. Though ironically, if Pence actually did become president and started enacting GOP policy, those policies might be the thing to really alienate the GOP base.
06-08-2017 , 10:41 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DVaut1
The thing you have to remember is that tossing Trump under the bus is not cost free for the GOP. Plenty of hardcore Trump partisans will be highly agitated and penalize the GOP for it, if only by staying home or whacking the traitors in primaries ala Cantor.
But shouldn't there be at least 22 Senators that carried their districts by a larger margin of votes than Trump received? I think McCain is one example.
06-08-2017 , 10:41 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JPantz
wtf? didnt he release a statement that he was "totally and completely vindicated"?
06-08-2017 , 10:44 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 5ive
Just because you went a whole day without mentioning H-Dog and her terrible, terrible no good very bad vagina (wtg!) doesn't mean you get to talk down to people.
lol this, like what kind of point is he even trying to make? that trump isn't mentally unfit for office and widely regarded as dangerous/sociopathic/narcissistic by mental health professionals? ookkkkk
06-08-2017 , 10:46 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by synth_floyd
Everything is already there to impeach Trump, except the political will. Again, it's hilarious why the GOP doesn't just throw him under the bus and put Pence in.
Without the 20% of Trump's base, the repubs don't have a chance to win anything. Sure that base wont ever vote for a democrat, but they also wont be showing up to the polls to vote against the people that kicked out their god king. They have painted themselves into a corner where the only way to remain in power is to cow-tow to the insane. Its like their incestuous relationship with the evangelics, only on a much more on-the-surface, scary way. If they **** over Trump, their days in power are over and they know it, so they have no choice but to let an insane child with dementia run the white house in order to keep their jobs.
06-08-2017 , 11:07 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lestat
But shouldn't there be at least 22 Senators that carried their districts by a larger margin of votes than Trump received? I think McCain is one example.
They don't fear the dems, they fear getting primaried by an even bigger lunatic. They fear losing that sweet sweet koch money.
06-08-2017 , 11:31 AM
At work, has testimony started?
06-08-2017 , 11:35 AM
I agree with DVaut et al that the GOP is in a bind vis a vis removing Trump, but imo it's far less of a gamble than they think it is. I'm skeptical that their power would take a crippling hit. The base would go through the garment-rending and teeth-gnashing you'd expect, but in the end, most of those dudes are rock solid GOP voters come hell or high water. That's the advantage of having a platform defined by the stalwarts of greed and religious hatred of the outgroup. They might talk about staying home, but the other guy is gonna run on raising taxes to help blacks, and they can't very well let him win can they?

This was the HRC fallacy. Trump can't win; his approval rating is in the toilet even among Republicans. Oh except 95%+ of those dudes showed up to pull the lever for him (and against Clinton) anyway, and he picked up some new voters energized by his naked racism and utopic "good at business" promises.

The only valid concern afaics is individual candidates getting primaried, as tomdemain points out. But even this is undercut by the fact that the Kochs vastly prefer Pence to Trump, and wouldn't mind seeing the latter relegated to the dustbin of history.
06-08-2017 , 11:53 AM
Didn't realize Comey started hours ago. Anybody got quick bullet points on things missed?
06-08-2017 , 12:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tomdemaine
They don't fear the dems, they fear getting primaried by an even bigger lunatic. They fear losing that sweet sweet koch money.
And they fear their base revolting. Very few Rs can survive a third of their voters staying home because they're pissed about Trump.

Tom, what time should we switch to BBC for an election results sweat?
06-08-2017 , 12:07 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by iron81
And they fear their base revolting. Very few Rs can survive a third of their voters staying home because they're pissed about Trump.

Tom, what time should we switch to BBC for election results?
Exit polls at 10pm gmt. Radio 4 will have the best coverage.
06-08-2017 , 12:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by master3004
wtf? didnt he release a statement that he was "totally and completely vindicated"?
Yes.
06-08-2017 , 12:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by master3004
Didn't realize Comey started hours ago. Anybody got quick bullet points on things missed?
At my count there have been at least 4 of these dip****s asking questions about emailzzzzzz...right now McCain is just blabbering on about nothing except the Clinton emails. Clearly very troubled.
06-08-2017 , 12:38 PM
John McCain with one of the worst false equivalence attempts I've ever seen. What a dummy.
06-08-2017 , 12:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ASAP17
John McCain with one of the worst false equivalence attempts I've ever seen. What a dummy.
I seriously wonder if his mental faculties are worse than Trump's. Either unable to comprehend or just willingly being a douche.
06-08-2017 , 12:41 PM
The McCain questioning was so painful.
06-08-2017 , 12:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tomdemaine
Exit polls at 10pm gmt.
This translates into 5 PM Eastern in Yank Speak.
06-08-2017 , 12:42 PM
Or about 4 hours from now

      
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