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The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: No smocking guns. The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: No smocking guns.

06-03-2017 , 08:54 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chippa58
I'm seeing this as a big chess game of sorts, and its in the early stages still. But things have a way of escalating quickly. Will the king run around until he's cornered or will he see the writing on the wall?

Also a lot like a poker game where we're a bit perplexed at what Mueller may be holding. Middle pair is one thing, but he could be holding a monster as well. Dude's got a good poker face. Is the turn card coming Thursday? Anyway, I think a year is certainly plausible...and I think more likely than eight years.
So which 20 Republican Senators do you think would vote to remove Trump when faced with completely damning evidence. Let's say he intentionally obstructs justice and then brags about it on national TV. Which 20 are we going to get?
06-03-2017 , 08:56 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Minirra
Meh, Bill Maher. He's as smug as he is out-of-touch, and despite calling himself a rational person he can veer off the road a bit. His politics are all over the place so I'd think that pretty much everyone would agree with him on something, myself included, so maybe that's his appeal.

And not that funny at all. I think he's in that dead spot between serious journalism and political comedy for me. Or he's just too much of an ahole to listen to.
+1
06-03-2017 , 08:59 AM
Here's the current list of Republicans in the Senate. Which 20 do you think are likely to vote for removal?

Richard Shelby (AL)
Luther Strange (AL)
Lisa Murkowski (AK)
Dan Sullivan (AK)
Jeff Flake (AZ)
John McCain (AZ)
John Boozman (AR)
Tom Cotton (AR)
Cory Gardner (CO)
Marco Rubio (FL)
Johnny Isakson (GA)
David Perdue (GA)
Mike Crapo (ID)
Jim Risch (ID)
Todd Young (IN)
Joni Ernst (IA)
Chuck Grassley (IA)
Jerry Moran (KS)
Pat Roberts (KS)
Mitch McConnell (KY)
Rand Paul (KY)
Bill Cassidy (LA)
John Kennedy (LA)
Susan Collins (ME)
Thad Cochran (MS)
Roger Wicker (MS)
Roy Blunt (MO)
Steve Daines (MT)
Deb Fischer (NE)
Ben Sasse (NE)
Dean Heller (NV)
Richard Burr (NC)
Thom Tillis (NC)
John Hoeven (ND)
Rob Portman (OH)
Jim Inhofe (OK)
James Lankford (OK)
Pat Toomey (PA)
Lindsey Graham (SC)
Tim Scott (SC)
Mike Rounds (SD)
John Thune (SD)
Lamar Alexander (TN)
Bob Corker (TN)
John Cornyn (TX)
Ted Cruz (TX)
Orrin Hatch (UT)
Mike Lee (UT)
Shelley Moore Capito (WV)
Ron Johnson (WI)
John Barrasso (WY)
Mike Enzi (WY)
06-03-2017 , 09:12 AM
I guess if you can get EVERY single Democratic Senator on board (including pretty conservative guys like Joe Manchin) you could get it done with 19 GOP Senators.
06-03-2017 , 09:12 AM
Your point is well-taken Einbert, and there are just a handful of Republican Senators up for re-election in 2018. But I'm not convinced that trial by Congress is needed. I'm still not convinced that Trump wants to be there. Trial in the media may be enough. Depends on what the evidence is. If he's there eight years though WAAF.
06-03-2017 , 09:14 AM
Quote:
If he's there eight years though WAAF.
Yeah I'm totally with you there. I just think our best path to take back power is through local control. If we get rid of Trump but don't solve voter suppression/gerrymandering/gain some state and local power we're gonna be ****ed anyway.
06-03-2017 , 09:16 AM
I don't think Trump will resign because I see him as similar to the hyper-LAG players in No Limit Hold 'Em. You know, the ones who aren't very good, bluff way too much, never know when to quit, but think they're science's gift to poker. These guys don't quit easily and they often use the same tactics over and over again so much it is annoyingly predictable. Anyway, my apologies for the poker analogy.
06-03-2017 , 09:19 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by einbert
Here's the current list of Republicans in the Senate. Which 20 do you think are likely to vote for removal?

Richard Shelby (AL)
Luther Strange (AL)
Lisa Murkowski (AK)
Dan Sullivan (AK)
Jeff Flake (AZ)
John McCain (AZ)

John Boozman (AR)
Tom Cotton (AR)
Cory Gardner (CO)
Marco Rubio (FL)

Johnny Isakson (GA)
David Perdue (GA)
Mike Crapo (ID)
Jim Risch (ID)
Todd Young (IN)
Joni Ernst (IA)
Chuck Grassley (IA)
Jerry Moran (KS)
Pat Roberts (KS)
Mitch McConnell (KY)
Rand Paul (KY)
Bill Cassidy (LA)
John Kennedy (LA)
Susan Collins (ME)
Thad Cochran (MS)
Roger Wicker (MS)
Roy Blunt (MO)
Steve Daines (MT)
Deb Fischer (NE)
Ben Sasse (NE)
Dean Heller (NV)

Richard Burr (NC)
Thom Tillis (NC)
John Hoeven (ND)
Rob Portman (OH)
Jim Inhofe (OK)
James Lankford (OK)
Pat Toomey (PA)
Lindsey Graham (SC)

Tim Scott (SC)
Mike Rounds (SD)
John Thune (SD)
Lamar Alexander (TN)
Bob Corker (TN)
John Cornyn (TX)
Ted Cruz (TX)
Orrin Hatch (UT)
Mike Lee (UT)

Shelley Moore Capito (WV)
Ron Johnson (WI)
John Barrasso (WY)
Mike Enzi (WY)
How many is this? 19. That's enough.

48 + 19 = 67

Only a narcissist would endure a Senate impeachment trial knowing he had a risk of conviction.
06-03-2017 , 09:21 AM
Reminder that "white moderates" like awval are exactly the reason we are in this mess. Martin Luther King Jr. warned us in A Letter from a Birmingham Jail that they are even more dangerous than the violent racists because they do nothing and allow evil to prosper. What do I think of your list? It's preposterous. Ted Cruz is the guy who literally made phone calls asking people to vote for Trump after Trump trashed him in every way possible. You are refusing to see the nightmarish reality you have helped entrap all of us in.
06-03-2017 , 09:22 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by awval999
How many is this? 19. That's enough.

48 + 19 = 67
Lol at Marco Rubio voting for impeachment.
06-03-2017 , 09:22 AM
MLK Jr. on awval:

Quote:
I must confess that over the past few years I have been gravely disappointed with the white moderate. I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro’s great stumbling block in his stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen’s Counciler or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate, who is more devoted to “order” than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice; who constantly says: “I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I cannot agree with your methods of direct action”; who paternalistically believes he can set the timetable for another man’s freedom; who lives by a mythical concept of time and who constantly advises the Negro to wait for a “more convenient season.”
http://crookedtimber.org/2013/01/21/...at-to-freedom/
http://www.africa.upenn.edu/Articles...irmingham.html
06-03-2017 , 09:24 AM
Ted Cruz was ****ing phonebanking for Trump after Trump said his dad killed JFK. Given the choice of voting to remove Trump or literally taking a bullet for Trump, Cruz would take the bullet since there's a chance he'd survive.
06-03-2017 , 09:26 AM
Other notably ridiculous figures from his list:

Marco Rubio
Lindsey Graham
Ben Sasse
Rand Paul
Tom Cotton
Orrin Hatch
06-03-2017 , 09:28 AM
Avwal openly and gleefully supports trump in everything he does. The worse trump gets the quicker he is to jump in here to post with glee his devoted support.

Too many people itt confuse his moderate success in poker with some kind of intellect.
06-03-2017 , 09:30 AM
For every Republican at this point a vote to impeach is basically a vote to end their career as a politician, right?
06-03-2017 , 09:32 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Money2Burn
Lol at Marco Rubio voting for impeachment.
Also Rand Paul. Dude is giving "exclusive" (if no one else wants to interview you it's exclusive by default) interviews to Breitbart. 0 chance Paul would vote to convict.
06-03-2017 , 09:32 AM
At this point it's literally impossible for impeachment to start. Paul Ryan would have to bring forward the articles of impeachment.
06-03-2017 , 09:34 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Money2Burn
For every Republican at this point a vote to impeach is basically a vote to end their career as a politician, right?
That is, one way or another, they will lose their next election, either by primary from Trump's rabid base or by a Dem who will eat them alive because of all the awful **** they did in support of Trump.
06-03-2017 , 09:34 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Money2Burn
For every Republican at this point a vote to impeach is basically a vote to end their career as a politician, right?
At this point, yes. But maybe not in a month, etc.

If you could just wait for the investigation to be concluded, then we would have our answer.

The truth may be that Trump had no idea his supporters like Flynn and Manafort were compromised. Or maybe there is a smoking gun? But in time, we will know.
06-03-2017 , 09:35 AM
WTF kind of managerial genius doesn't know what his closest staff are up to?
06-03-2017 , 09:36 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by awval999
At this point, yes. But maybe not in a month, etc.

If you could just wait for the investigation to be concluded, then we would have our answer.

The truth may be that Trump had no idea his supporters like Flynn and Manafort were compromised. Or maybe there is a smoking gun? But in time, we will know.
Are we in danger of impeding that process by discussing it on a message board?

No?

Then what are you even whinging about?
06-03-2017 , 09:37 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by awval999
At this point, yes. But maybe not in a month, etc.

If you could just wait for the investigation to be concluded, then we would have our answer.

The truth may be that Trump had no idea his supporters like Flynn and Manafort were compromised. Or maybe there is a smoking gun? But in time, we will know.
What in god's name are you blathering about? There is a smoking gun. Trump bragged about committing obstruction of justice in a national TV interview with Lester Holt. This impeachment thing isn't a theory at this point--they're actively refusing to impeach him because it isn't politically popular.
06-03-2017 , 09:38 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Our House
Something that doesn't get talked about much is Trump's role in the LEAKS sideshow. What part of it is either his responsibility, or a manufactured con job?

We know several things:

1) Trump manufactured a tweet falsehood about Obama wiretapping him at Trump Tower and couldn't back it up since.

2) Trump spent at least a few weeks manufacturing stories with Nunes and others around him to try to explain the above falsehood.

3) Trump has a long history of leaking manufactured bull**** to various media outlets. Just ask John Miller.

4) A ****load of leaks have come out of the White House itself.

5) Non-classified details are not leaks.

Just like the whole Comey vs Trump situation and pretty much everything else related to Russia or the cover-up, it's a matter of weighing the credibility of Trump vs the credibility of the IC.


If that's all it is, Trump is ****ed.
06-03-2017 , 09:38 AM
Let us not forget his emoluments, as well.
06-03-2017 , 09:43 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by awval999
At this point, yes. But maybe not in a month, etc.

If you could just wait for the investigation to be concluded, then we would have our answer.

The truth may be that Trump had no idea his supporters like Flynn and Manafort were compromised. Or maybe there is a smoking gun? But in time, we will know.
And you've just proven exactly why Trump's support won't go into a tail spin that forces R senators to jump ship. Even if evidence of Trump's incompetence and corruption penetrates the right-wing media Iron Lung, people like you will believe stupid **** like this. Put another way, there is no evidence that will convince you or anyone other conservative who still supports Trump that he should be removed from office.

      
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