The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: No smocking guns. - Page 150 - Politics and Economics

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The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: No smocking guns.

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01-31-2017 , 11:17 AM

#3726

poconoder

journeyman

Join Date: Jan 2017 Posts: 370

Quote:

Originally Posted by microbet

Democrats will capitulate on everything. Hell, there are enough Blue Dogs that it's not even capitulation. It's just who they are.

unlike the house which has been gerrymandered so that 90% of districts are practically one-party dominated districts, the Senate has a lot of states that are swing states for Senate elections. These Blue Dogs will lose their seats if they go too far being no-compromise left wing, there is a political reality to deal with here.

01-31-2017 , 11:20 AM

#3727

Rococo

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 19,525

Quote:

Originally Posted by microbet

I don't know why Mattis isn't high on the list. There's hardly any issue more impactful than whether or not we're at war.

And you think that Mattis is more of a warmonger than whoever would be Secretary of Defense if Mattis were struck by lightning tomorrow? I don't agree.

01-31-2017 , 11:20 AM

#3728

microbet

Solar Powered

Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 57,092

I think voters like people with conviction and courage even if they disagree on policy sometimes.

01-31-2017 , 11:21 AM

#3729

microbet

Solar Powered

Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 57,092

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rococo

And you think that Mattis is more of a warmonger than whoever would be Secretary of Defense if Mattis were struck by lightning tomorrow? I don't agree.

He sure talks like it and I dont know what else to go by.

01-31-2017 , 11:24 AM

#3730

Rococo

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 19,525

Quote:

Originally Posted by microbet

He sure talks like it and I dont know what else to go by.

You haven't done enough research. He has been lauded pretty widely for encouraging decency and cultural sensitivity in the field.

01-31-2017 , 11:27 AM

#3731

Vagine

journeyman

Join Date: Dec 2014 Posts: 352

Quote:

Originally Posted by 5ive

magnificent:

https://www.thebeaverton.com/2017/01...lready-regret/

I’m an average citizen, like you. I could be your neighbor, your co-worker, a member of your extended family. I’m also one of the many, many people who recently voted to release millions of furious hornets into the air all around us. And I can already say I regret that decision.

Initially, I didn’t really want to choose between unleashing endless legions of angry stinging hornets and not unleashing them. Frankly, I wasn’t particularly excited about either option. But not releasing the hornets just felt like asking for more of the same, you know? I wasn’t voting for releasing the hornets per se, so much as I was voting for the change that releasing the hornets represented...

It's the self absorb idiots like him that got us into this mess.

01-31-2017 , 11:30 AM

#3732

awval999

Election Monitor.

Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 6,269

Quote:

Originally Posted by champstark

100% agree and it was ridiculous that the Dems didn't take advantage of the free points in opposing him based solely on this fact.

Mattis was confirmed 99-1.

He literally may be asked to save not only the Republic but all of Humanity.

That's why he wasn't opposed.

01-31-2017 , 11:31 AM

#3733

microbet

Solar Powered

Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 57,092

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rococo

You haven't done enough research. He has been lauded pretty widely for encouraging decency and cultural sensitivity in the field.

So he's polite and a decent person when not pressing for war. Seems like he loves war. Maybe that's good for a battlefield general, but not Sec Def.

01-31-2017 , 11:33 AM

#3734

Rococo

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 19,525

Quote:

Originally Posted by microbet

So he's polite and a decent person when not pressing for war. Seems like he loves war. Maybe that's good for a battlefield general, but not Sec Def.

Feel free to identify realistic replacements whom you would have preferred.

01-31-2017 , 11:36 AM

#3735

awval999

Election Monitor.

Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 6,269

Micro you are so wrong here.

Mattis already talked Trump off of torture. He is literally the only person on Earth who can stop Trump from launching the nukes.

This is why the Dems didn't oppose him. They respect him. And know what he may be asked to do.

01-31-2017 , 11:39 AM

#3736

microbet

Solar Powered

Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 57,092

Quote:

Originally Posted by awval999

Mattis was confirmed 99-1.

He literally may be asked to save not only the Republic but all of Humanity.

That's why he wasn't opposed.

This isn't why Dems voted for him. They did that because they're scared of not looking like they love a decorated Marine no matter what.

But, it's a fair point, not that Mattis is good or better than the likely next pick, but with Trump the next pick could openly want nuclear war. But then if Mattis didn't get confirmed, wjy would someone worse?

01-31-2017 , 11:43 AM

#3737

bobman0330

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Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 24,234

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rococo

You haven't done enough research. He has been lauded pretty widely for encouraging decency and cultural sensitivity in the field.

Wasn't Mattis ****canned by Obama for excessive hawkishness on Iran?

EDIT: He's also ethically compromised by his involvement with Theranos!

01-31-2017 , 11:44 AM

#3738

zikzak

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 22,198

awval starting to sense a change in the winds, tacking to make sure he's still on the winning side. He'll be the first to weep with joy when Trump gets impeached and exclaim, "We did it! We took our country back!"

01-31-2017 , 11:46 AM

#3739

champstark

aka starkwired

Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 14,838

DeVos plagiarized her questionnaire

https://www.washingtonpost.com/power...=.6a32336e9d2f

Nice example we are setting for American students

01-31-2017 , 11:49 AM

#3740

microbet

Solar Powered

Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 57,092

Quote:

Originally Posted by awval999

If we invade Iran a million people will die.

Maybe you got me on the nukes, that was my last post.

01-31-2017 , 11:49 AM

#3741

Rococo

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 19,525

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobman0330

Wasn't Mattis ****canned by Obama for excessive hawkishness on Iran?

EDIT: He's also ethically compromised by his involvement with Theranos!

He certainly disagreed with Obama on the Iran deal, but that was sure to be true of any Trump nominee. And I think that there were rational arguments to be made on both sides of the Iran deal. Opposing it is not a sign of insanity.

His service on the Theranos board is certainly embarrassing but I'm not sure what it has to do with his duties as Secretary of Defense.

01-31-2017 , 12:00 PM

#3742

bobman0330

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 24,234

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rococo

I'm not claiming he's insane, I'm claiming that his "decency and cultural sensitivity" don't mean that he's not a war-hawk so extreme Obama fired him for it. There was no good reason to change the law to make a person like that eligible to be head of the civilian military establishment, especially under a president as dangerous as Trump.

Mattis got involved in Theranos's defense procurement efforts quite possibly in exchange for a corrupt promise of post-retirement financial benefits. It's hard to imagine an offense more relevant to the SecDef position than that.

01-31-2017 , 12:01 PM

#3743

Lestat

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 10,998

Quote:

Originally Posted by microbet

So he's polite and a decent person when not pressing for war. Seems like he loves war. Maybe that's good for a battlefield general, but not Sec Def.

Pick and choose your battles. Mattis is generally respected and is on record as being against torture and reportedly furious that he wasn't consulted about this ban.

I strongly agree with Dvaut1. Playing the "Omg how could he? We're so shocked and offended" game isn't going to work. Just saw this headline: Amid turmoil in his government, Trump calls Democrats 'a Mess'. Sound familiar? It's the shell game again. The only way to defeat Trump (and start the impeachment process ASAP) is by showing him to be an ineffectual incompetent who is breaking laws in the process. Stop being offended and write, email, call your Republican congressmen!

01-31-2017 , 12:03 PM

#3744

Clovis8

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 16,503

Awval is so repulsive. Now he is proclaiming victory for the confirmation of a guy he thinks will "save humanity" from the very ****ing scumbag he has supported for months.

Just disgusting.

01-31-2017 , 12:09 PM

#3745

master3004

Revisionist Historian

Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 56,462

Quote:

Originally Posted by DVaut1

It's already a fait accompli. That is to say, the norms to maintain good government are eroded and degraded and the party in power is not respecting them.

So: If the GOP wants to organize their priorities and come to the table with meaningful compromises to govern, I would urge Democrats to join them.

That isn't happening. The Democrats being the party of pluralism and compromise just to signal a willingness to do it while the GOP obstructs endlessly is how we got here with a functional minority class enjoying almost total rule at all levels of government and trying to further entrench it.

The democratic norms we cherish (e.g., do not obstruct just to make the opposition party look bad) only work when they are genuine norms that are shared. They aren't, anymore, so there is no use maintaining fidelity to them.

Democrats actually have an added benefit here in that more or less everything Trump is trying to do is worthy of obstruction.

But I feel like we're all that dog in the thisisfine.jpg, whistling about democratic norms and how we're really maintaining a tradition of good governance and sound civic virtues.

Exactly. The Republicans changed the rules the last 8 years. Trying to play the game under the old rules that o longer exist is a recipe for disaster. There is only one option anymore. Resist. Obstruct everything.

01-31-2017 , 12:18 PM

#3746

markksman

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 20,921

Lol democrats boycotting confirmation meetings and republicans waterfalling obstructionism tears.

01-31-2017 , 12:19 PM

#3747

5ive

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Oct 2012 Posts: 6,766

Quote:

Originally Posted by heehaww

Surprised this hasn't been brought up yet -- Suspect in Quebec Mosque Attack Quickly Depicted as a Moroccan Muslim. He’s a White Nationalist.

I suppose that will be dismissed as fake news by Trump supporters, though.

Yeah but don't forget, Obama ordered the drone-strike murder of her brother (in a cafe with his 17yo cousin, iirc). He was a 16yo American citizen with zero terrorist inclinations. Obama was taking out their families long before Trump ever uttered those words, it's just people didn't care as much when Obama was the one doing it, because Obama at least pretends / gives the outward appearance of not being a monster.

(But I do miss Obama right about now.)

Come the **** on, Obama did brazenly come out as say he was going to kill the families as leverage, nor did he do that.

01-31-2017 , 12:20 PM

#3748

Rococo

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 19,525

Quote:

Originally Posted by master3004

If the goal is good governance, this sort of post makes me feel like the battle is lost already.

And it reminds me of this exchange from the movie Wall Street:

Quote:

Bud: You're right, Lou, you're right. But you gotta make it to the big time first, then you can be a pillar and do good things.

Mannheim: You can't get a little bit pregnant, son.

Bud: Lou, trust me, it's a winner. Buy it.

01-31-2017 , 12:25 PM

#3749

5ive

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Oct 2012 Posts: 6,766

Also, can we please just cut the ****ing **** about Obama's involvement. EVERYBODY was for that 'war on terror' bull**** and Obama inherited the whole shebang.

Sure, they might not have been full throttle lizard brain drooling, seeing al qaeda in the trees in Topeka, KA and such places but everybody on all sides was gung-ho about warring on some terror.