The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: No smocking guns. - Page 1448 - Politics and Economics

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The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: No smocking guns.

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05-26-2017 , 07:29 PM

#36176

champstark

aka starkwired

Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 14,838

I wonder if Trump set this up so Ivanka has to come running back to him.

05-26-2017 , 07:30 PM

#36177

fuluck414

veteran

Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 3,281

My Facebook is blowing up because Hillary said Nixon was impeached. Glad they're on top of the important stuff.

Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk

05-26-2017 , 07:40 PM

#36178

Rex Ingram

journeyman

Join Date: Sep 2013 Posts: 339

Quote:

Originally Posted by DVaut1

I don't think I agree with the bolded in either case.

The principle problem was that she failed to effectively give people an affirmative reason to vote for her; she failed to make the case Trump was making a bunch of empty promises. And most importantly she failed to tie Trump to the boring, unexciting but highly unpopular and destructive GOP policies (replacing ObamaCare with nothing, tax cuts for the rich, deregulation) and failed to disabuse people of Trump's populist rhetoric (no one would lose health insurance, he intended to drain the swamp of lobbyists and career politicians) and allowed Trump to define himself as a drastic departure from Republican orthodoxy and as a genuine populist. Had she done that effectively, e.g., instead of a bunch of personal **** about Trump -- had she turned Trump into an oligarch who intends to be servile to the rich and business interests -- my guess is she would have won. The only 'personal' attack that she should have stuck with is that he's a serial liar, his populist rhetoric was completely not credible, and he was in the end a force for instituting the traditional Republican agenda and its standard interests of enriching the already wealthy and big businesses. Then lay out a case for what she intended to do in plain speech rather than technocratic ones; namely she was going to viciously defend entitlements. That campaign would have had the added benefit of benefiting Democratic everywhere and not allowing Republicans the political space to do the Very Troubled and Deeply Concerned act where they fenced-jumped to the Democrats side on rhetoric that Trump was personally loathsome but ultimately lined up behind him.

I do think her mistakes were ultimately understandable and the whole "Trump is personally poisonous and unfit" made a lot of sense. Only in hindsight do the weaknesses become apparent. So I'm even a little defensive of the strategy even though I recognize it failed. A lot of smart and experienced people would bet it would work; a lot of people did.

What I object to is the narrative she didn't engage in it at all. That's dangerous in a few ways. For one the whole "she didn't do it with strength and the correct emotion" strikes me as sort of the patent subtle misogyny that has dogged her entire career. But defending her honor is a little boring at this point. Second, and more important, if the point is expressed with sincerity, it's a mistake we don't want to repeat or continue.

I agree with a lot of what you say. But I believe there is nothing misogynistic about saying that Hillary was a wooden, boring, uninspiring candidate who was lacking charisma and personality. Presidential candidates get that all the time: John Kerry, Scott Walker, Jeb Bush, Al Gore. She delivered very scripted lines and didn't always sounds like she cared about what she spoke about. All her stories about her being a lawyer for the poor, going to China, working on healthcare, killing Osama became very tiresome and trite. Trump's attacks that she didn't accomplish anything despite being out there for 30 years really landed with people.

She also did a terrible job picking apart Trump's arguments. It is so easy to make Trump stupid and explain to him why there are reasons why insurance companies don't operate across state lines or why you might give a warning that you will attack a city with a lot of civilians. It was obvious that Trump was incredibly ignorant, but she didn't much to bring that to anyone attention.

I agree that she had no clear message to communicate to the people. However, Trump was an extremely terrible candidate. Maybe if Hillary was personable, maybe she could have connected better with the people, even despite having no cohesive message.

05-26-2017 , 07:42 PM

#36179

bigt2k4

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 15,296

Quote:

Originally Posted by Han YOLO

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s-_mbZ63WCA

I am so humble, I am the humblest, you could say I'm the humblest guy in the whole world.

05-26-2017 , 07:46 PM

#36180

wheatrich

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 21,405

this Kushner russia channel is just more proof the main stream fake news media. Everyone wanted their own secret channel to the russians, so there's clearly no collusion among the trump campaign.

05-26-2017 , 07:50 PM

#36181

Nicholasp27

27th level thinker

Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 84,579

05-26-2017 , 07:51 PM

#36182

ScreaminAsian

For President

Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 33,333

Quote:

Originally Posted by wheatrich

this Kushner russia channel is just more proof the main stream fake news media. Everyone wanted their own secret channel to the russians, so there's clearly no collusion among the trump campaign.

lol you're taking too many derp pills again

05-26-2017 , 07:52 PM

#36183

.isolated

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 21,495

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nicholasp27

Gotta get on the 31st level, at least.

05-26-2017 , 07:56 PM

#36184

aoFrantic

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 25,218

Quote:

Originally Posted by ScreaminAsian

lol you're taking too many derp pills again

Yeah I don't get that post on any level.

05-26-2017 , 07:58 PM

#36185

ScreaminAsian

For President

Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 33,333

the official white house comment is: no comment tonight

they gotta dust off that war room

05-26-2017 , 08:13 PM

#36186

ligastar

ToP 1o0 pAsS cAtChErS

Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 31,846

Quote:

Originally Posted by ScreaminAsian

Russian ambassador told Moscow that Kushner wanted secret communications channel with Kremlin

Kislyak said Kushner suggested using Russian diplomatic facilities in the United States for the communications.

05-26-2017 , 08:23 PM

#36187

Huehuecoyotl

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 29,296

Another wave of "deeply troubled" incoming

05-26-2017 , 08:26 PM

#36188

Trolly McTrollson

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 37,832

Quote:

Originally Posted by ScreaminAsian

Russian ambassador told Moscow that Kushner wanted secret communications channel with Kremlin

Kislyak said Kushner suggested using Russian diplomatic facilities in the United States for the communications.

hahahahahahaha, holy **** I assumed the Jared/Russia link was just some shady business deal, but holy **** it's full on espionage. **** is about to get real imo.

05-26-2017 , 08:28 PM

#36189

Huehuecoyotl

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 29,296

A little light treason.

Also incoming "the intelligence services are LEAKERS so we had propose using Russian services because they don't leak"

05-26-2017 , 08:31 PM

#36190

zikzak

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 22,198

Quote:

"GOOD GRIEF. This is serious," said Bob Deitz, a veteran of the NSA and the CIA who worked under the Clinton and Bush administrations.

"This raises a bunch of problematic issues. First, of course, is the Logan Act, which prohibits private individuals conducting negotiations on behalf of the US government with foreign governments," Deitz said. "Second, it tends to reinforce the notion that Trump's various actions about Comey do constitute obstruction."

"In other words, there is now motive added to conduct," Deitz noted. "This is a big problem for the President."

http://www.businessinsider.com/jared...a-trump-2017-5

05-26-2017 , 08:34 PM

#36191

PocketChads

guaranteed 42-10 finish

Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 22,476

Quote:

On the 89th time in 365 days that people talk like this, there will FINALLY be consequences

05-26-2017 , 08:34 PM

#36192

Trolly McTrollson

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 37,832

Quote:

Originally Posted by Huehuecoyotl

A little light treason.

Let me put on my ikestoys supernit hat here and say that it's only legally treason if the US and Russia are in a state of war. Espionage charges are no joke, though.

Big question now is whether Trump had plausible deniability.

05-26-2017 , 08:35 PM

#36193

uDevil

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 6,941

It's stunning the risks Trump and his people have taken to hide Russia contacts. If they weren't talking about illegal or corrupt acts, then they destroyed their credibility and chanced going to jail because they wanted to keep from appearing like they were doing dirty deals with the Russians? They must have stronger motivation than that. Trump's drivers are money and power, and the fear of losing them. And it seems like it's all on the line now.

05-26-2017 , 08:35 PM

#36194

fxwacgesvrhdtf

Guest

Posts: n/a

Quote:

Originally Posted by ScreaminAsian

Russian ambassador told Moscow that Kushner wanted secret communications channel with Kremlin

Kislyak said Kushner suggested using Russian diplomatic facilities in the United States for the communications.

from the article:

Quote:

Kislyak reportedly was taken aback by the suggestion of allowing an American to use Russian communications gear at its embassy or consulate — a proposal that would have carried security risks for Moscow as well as the Trump team.

This is hilarious. Even the russians were like, "sounds a little sketchy to us..."

05-26-2017 , 08:39 PM

#36195

fatkid

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Nov 2011 Posts: 8,860

Me in February. I felt it boyz. I want my prize now.

Quote:

Originally Posted by fatkid

Kushner is involved in this Russian ****. I can feel it.

05-26-2017 , 08:39 PM

#36196

eyebooger

Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 59,259

Can you imagine how deeply troubled the GOP moderates must be after hearing that story?

Call me cynical, but I'm not believing this moves the needle one iota. It just doesn't matter anymore.

05-26-2017 , 08:40 PM

#36197

.isolated

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 21,495

Quote:

Originally Posted by PocketChads

On the 89th time in 365 days that people talk like this, there will FINALLY be consequences

Yeah, this is becoming ******ed. People thought the memo's coming out last week were going to finally be something and now it's barely an ongoing story. Same will happen to this. Nothing will ever happen to Trump or his cronies.

edit: basically this:

Quote:

Originally Posted by eyebooger

Call me cynical, but I'm not believing this moves the needle one iota. It just doesn't matter anymore.

05-26-2017 , 08:42 PM

#36198

Onlydo2days

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 19,720

Quote:

Originally Posted by suzzer99

And now for some uplifting news for once. I seriously wonder if Bannon went home and cried after Trump won. He had to be salivating over monetizing anti-HRC sentiment for the next 4-8 years.

Not too surprising, when your entire media platform is based around fomenting rage about the establishment, that can become challenging when you become the establishment.

I'm sure it has been mentioned ITT but anyone see Fox ratings lately compared to MSNBC and CNN? They used to smash them all the time, now they are neck and neck and even losing.

Just seems like a way, way easier grift if you aren't in power.