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The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: No smocking guns. The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: No smocking guns.

05-16-2017 , 09:51 AM

https://twitter.com/McFaul/status/864337180231168000
05-16-2017 , 09:52 AM
Literally every actual policy that Trump has tried or legislation that he's pushed has been supported by Ted Cruz, we'd be in the same place except the court case against the Muslim ban would've been harder to prove since Cruz wasn't stupid enough to blab about it all campaign long.
05-16-2017 , 10:00 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by einbert
Right, investment spending can stimulate demand as well. But the point is government spending isn't "gone" after it's used, it's actually a job creator because it goes right back into the economy. And unlike investment spending, government spending (if done well) benefits the overall public, rather than benefiting a very small number of private shareholders with often negative externalities on the general public.
Citation needed.
05-16-2017 , 10:02 AM
Israeli news published this back in January

05-16-2017 , 10:03 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by simplicitus
Was going to write something like this. This "leak" to the Russians does not concern me near as much as firing Comey, or most of Trump's cabinet appointments, incompetence, staff, dementia, lack of policy knowledge, reflexive lying, etc. This story is bad optics, to be sure, but the appointment of Sessions for AG was 100x worse.
Think this take is wrong. Sessions is abominable, but there's a lot of ability to undo his policies (and to some extent the damage they did while in effect) when a Democratic administration comes in. The Comey firing and the general atmosphere of pathological dishonesty and unaccountability that the administration exudes are worse and harder to repair, but it can maybe be done. On the foreign policy front, Trump is irreparably destroying the country's credibility and it will never be restored. Read this Jeet Heer article which makes the argument, although he unaccountably thinks it's a good thing because lefties don't like saying things that make America sound nice. Notice how terribly lame his last two paragraphs are, though. That's where the action is.
05-16-2017 , 10:05 AM
Heard former Australian ambassador to US and former leader of the major center-left party here on the radio today. I dont think he has detailed knowledge of what happened but he was saying that when these classified information ****ups happen they are usually cleaned up and hushed up by intelligence agencies. And that that isnt happening in this instance because the intel agencies hate Trump. Worth bearing in mind the factor of hostile agencies when evaluating these stories.
05-16-2017 , 10:07 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DVaut1
This is why it remains, I think, the only path forward for the left to focus on populist and strident messaging regarding the GOP's domestic policies which raid public monies and welfare programs for tax cuts for zillionaires, and present an alternative case for how the left can improve peoples' lives in practical ways.

In many respects these stories remain very esoteric for most of the electorate, which is why the GOP can quickly make them partisan and shuffle everyone into their pre-assigned reflexive corners.

1) Waiting for the GOP to act is obviously foolish; they have 40% of the electorate wedded to them and will never move, and for most of them, that's enough for de facto lifetime appointments
2) Waiting for the mainstream media to dutifully explain all of Trump's transgressions in the midst of right-winger generated distractions and obfuscations is also doomed to fail.
3) And waiting for law enforcement or other institutions like the FBI or intelligence community to catch up with Trump may take years or never happen

Democrats best shot, or maybe the left's best shot to put a lot of leverage on Democrats to insist on this -- is to make the affirmative case that the Democrats have polices that give a large number of people more money and security than they would with the GOP, and the negative case that the GOP are amoral kleptocrats scamming them.

Russia Russia Russia RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA has some merits I'm sure, it's titillating, no doubt Trump is guilty of so much. But yet again weeks go by and all Democrats are able to muster is that Trump is a very, very bad idiot President which is basically baked into everyone's impressions now.

It's probably true enough that by doing nothing else, Democrats will win a lot in 2018 but probably not change much in the long run.

Still think Democrats have to move beyond these events even when they're self-inflicted by Trump and even when he proves himself the hapless idiot we know him to be.
This is a good post and I think what you indicate here would be highly effective. Since TRUMP being the dufus that he is, the Dems are sure to have a better message and ideas. Where should they start? The TRUMP is an incompetent boob message (unqualified in more polite terms) was the HRC message. The Bernie message of a much more progressive tax system coupled with single payer health care coverage, more protectionist trade policies, free college tuition for all, etc. seemed to play pretty well with a lot of people.
05-16-2017 , 10:12 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobman0330
Think this take is wrong. Sessions is abominable, but there's a lot of ability to undo his policies (and to some extent the damage they did while in effect) when a Democratic administration comes in. The Comey firing and the general atmosphere of pathological dishonesty and unaccountability that the administration exudes are worse and harder to repair, but it can maybe be done. On the foreign policy front, Trump is irreparably destroying the country's credibility and it will never be restored. Read this Jeet Heer article which makes the argument, although he unaccountably thinks it's a good thing because lefties don't like saying things that make America sound nice. Notice how terribly lame his last two paragraphs are, though. That's where the action is.
I don't see how this addresses the fact that Bush did things that were arguably worse than what Trump has done so far (at least in terms of destroying America's credibility and world standing), and Obama repaired a lot of it. I'm not saying Trump can't get there and be even worse than Bush, but to act like he's done irreparable harm to our standing around the world already seems a bit much.
05-16-2017 , 10:13 AM
adios:

We aren't gonna take advice from known fascists on how to advance the progressive movement. You really think we're stupid, don't you?
05-16-2017 , 10:44 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperUberBob
I have no idea how this guy has ever gotten through a deposition without giving everything up. Seeing him questioned before Congress would be like a slow-motion train wreck.
There's a long deposition you can find on YouTube. Basically he didn't give up anything because he didn't know anything. It was about leases and he said he signs a lot of them, but doesn't read them. He left that to his kids.
05-16-2017 , 10:47 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by champstark
I don't see how this addresses the fact that Bush did things that were arguably worse than what Trump has done so far (at least in terms of destroying America's credibility and world standing), and Obama repaired a lot of it. I'm not saying Trump can't get there and be even worse than Bush, but to act like he's done irreparable harm to our standing around the world already seems a bit much.
The mere fact that this post exists after 4 months of Trump (compared to 8 years of Bush) is solid evidence against it.

As an aside, I was unaware of how much good Obama did until Trump started undoing his policies.
05-16-2017 , 10:48 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Our House
Now we have to worry about what might be revealed in today's WH meeting with President Erdogan from Turkey. God I hope every word out of Trump's mouth is being (1-party-legal-DC) recorded from now on. Legit scared.
Me too. The fate of the democratic confederation of northern Syria may depend on this meeting. Fate of Turkey too probably because if Trump OKs a Turkish invasion it will go badly for everyone Turkey included.
05-16-2017 , 11:01 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by synth_floyd


Speculation is that this is the country that Trump betrayed by giving away that intel to Russia.
Ha, I called that while I was still reading the headline of the WP article.

Almost guarantees some sort of attack or suicide bombing in Jordan as a result too.
05-16-2017 , 11:02 AM
05-16-2017 , 11:05 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by champstark
I don't see how this addresses the fact that Bush did things that were arguably worse than what Trump has done so far (at least in terms of destroying America's credibility and world standing), and Obama repaired a lot of it. I'm not saying Trump can't get there and be even worse than Bush, but to act like he's done irreparable harm to our standing around the world already seems a bit much.
There's a critical difference between standing and credibility. It's one thing to invade a dictatorship in the Middle East on false pretenses and get lots of people killed while accomplishing nothing. It won't make people like you and it will make your standing go down (and it's bad!), but it doesn't necessarily affect your credibility. I mean, maybe misrepresenting intel upsets people, but it's not really that bad. In particular, it doesn't give your allies reasons to doubt you about things that are truly important to their security. Handing over restricted intel to the Russians and appointing a known foreign agent to be the National Security Advisor may be less bad in an absolute sense, but things like that give other countries a huge reason to question whether they can trust the U.S. about the things that really matter to them. When Japan is trying to decide whether it needs an independent military to confront China (or even if it needs nuclear weapons), you would like them to believe the answer is "No, the U.S. would always defend Japan with its military." But know the line of thinking has to take into account "What if the U.S. President is bribed by our enemies? What if leaving us in the lurch provides a domestic political benefit?"
05-16-2017 , 11:09 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Our House
So Trump puts out the cleanest, straightest guy he has (McMaster) to stake his reputation on a cover-up, then throws him under the bus in the morning by admitting it was all a lie? How much can these "loyalists" take??
Before all this came about I had been reading that Trump was not really happy with McMasters. I suspect it is because he wanted to try and do his job and would not pledge his undying loyalty to Trump.

If that was the case I certainly see trunp using this scenario to push mcmasters out on a ledge to make him look bad. For some reason trump loves doing that, completely unaware that to sane people it makes him be seen as a horrendous leader. This stuff he regularly did in his business life as well.

Honestly we have to assume anyone who works for him now has a major personality disorder/defect. The fact not one person has resigned because of this **** show is pretty telling, in my opinion. The Whitehouse is like the Anti-USA Network , Character(s) not welcome.
05-16-2017 , 11:09 AM
Just the fact that Trump would tell the Russians classified information that he wouldn't and won't tell American citizens should be a little disconcerting to Trumpsters...shouldn't it?
05-16-2017 , 11:11 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chippa58
Just the fact that Trump would tell the Russians classified information that he wouldn't and won't tell American citizens should be a little disconcerting to Trumpsters...shouldn't it?
The fact that he'd let Russian ****ing State ****ing Media into the goddamn room while keeping US media out should be a "little disconcerting."

THIS **** should be that-sounds-like-the-tsunami-warning-siren-get-to-higher-ground disconcerting.
05-16-2017 , 11:12 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisV
Heard former Australian ambassador to US and former leader of the major center-left party here on the radio today. I dont think he has detailed knowledge of what happened but he was saying that when these classified information ****ups happen they are usually cleaned up and hushed up by intelligence agencies. And that that isnt happening in this instance because the intel agencies hate Trump. Worth bearing in mind the factor of hostile agencies when evaluating these stories.
what are you trying to say big boi?
05-16-2017 , 11:15 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by eyebooger


https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/...52996129853444
Lolooooololollol
05-16-2017 , 11:16 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Namath12
wowzies. I see PPP is a Dem polling company... are they credible?
05-16-2017 , 11:19 AM
The Seth Rich thing is actually a pretty good example of how the reason "the mainstream media" is full of liberals is because conservatives get so excited about bull**** they don't do the basic parts of their job.

So, broad strokes, I read the infowars so you don't have to:

1) Some wingnut "private investigator" says that he works for the Rich family and he has sources that say Rich had contacts with Wikileaks and the DC police shut down the investigation. The implication is that Hillary had him killed.

2) He tells a reporter this

3) The reporter writes a story based on that

THEN

4) The Rich family says they didn't hire the guy

5) The DC police say the guy is wrong


Why didn't the original story contact those people? Because the reporter is a right winger and the story was bad for Clinton at a time when Trump was in real hot water, and for the GOP the 2016 general election will never end.
05-16-2017 , 11:19 AM
someone needs to start asking Republicans, "If it were Hillary in the oval office, do you think your reaction would be the same?"... that should be good for giggles.
05-16-2017 , 11:20 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lilu7
wowzies. I see PPP is a Dem polling company... are they credible?
B+ according to Nate

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/pollster-ratings/

Gallup got a B- for comparison's sake
05-16-2017 , 11:23 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by yeSpiff


Congratulations Mr. H.R. McMaster, you're the next contestant on "Under the Bus!"


      
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