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The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: No smocking guns. The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: No smocking guns.

01-30-2017 , 11:42 AM
my favorite part of this ordeal is that now all good honest moral people must be outraged at Uber because they are screwing over taxi drivers. you guys just figured that out now?
01-30-2017 , 11:44 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by wheatrich
There is one law now in america--because trump said so.



or the other way around.
The type of state you describe requires support from the population.

Even if the worst case scenario (Bannon wins), America isn't going to go quietly. There will be loud, continued protesting in the streets. Business doesn't like or want that. Is Bannon going to bring all institutions/businesses/communities in the USA to heel through sheer force? Military going to fire on NY Times and Supreme Court?

It doesn't go down like that. Not our culture.

ACLU raising $25 million in like 48 hours is another very interesting development here. Power in the USA is very much about $. Koch brothers already showing signs of resistance.

Bottom line, the country is too large, diverse, and wealthy to go the way of a totalitarian regime. You need the people to be on board. My grandparents are not going to lead an armed assault on the city of Boston.
01-30-2017 , 11:53 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by seattlelou
A thread dedicated to the SCOTUS nominee written by one of legal experts would be a welcome addition.
Once we know who it is, it will happen.

Fingers crossed it's Hardiman. Dems should still filibuster absolutely anyone, though.
01-30-2017 , 11:55 AM
Matt Levine on the deludedness of the business community:

Quote:
This is a widespread pattern. Many people in the business and financial and technology communities listened to what Trump said, and cheerily assumed he'd do something completely different. Sure he talked about restricting trade and banning Muslim immigrants, but what they heard was that he'd enact "sensible immigration policy" and pro-growth trade agreements, reduce taxes, cut back regulation and generally improve conditions for business. As I said in November:

Quote:
Peter Thiel and others said that Trump should be taken "seriously but not literally." Taking Trump literally means believing that he'll do what he says. Taking him seriously means believing that he'll do what you want.
And what has happened so far? Immigration bans (with more to come), abandoned trade agreements, "alternative facts," unprompted promises to bring back torture. And what has not happened so far? Tax policy is a complete mystery, with an unclear and walked-back promise to impose a border tax. Health-care policy is even more mysterious. Trump has made vague promises to cut regulations by 75 percent, but his specific regulatory focus seems to be on increasing penalties on companies that move operations abroad. Everything Trump literally said is coming literally true; everything the serious people heard remains an unserious hope. Businesses may eventually get the tax and regulatory reform they wanted, but it's not a priority. The technology industry, and some others, are beginning to figure this out:

Trump has "had this extraordinary honeymoon where Wall Street has kind of discounted all the negative aspects," Richard Fenning, the CEO of consultancy Control Risks, told Bloomberg Television. As companies react to the migrant ban, "perhaps that honeymoon is starting to be over," he said.

More than that, though. One upshot of Trump's executive order is that United States lawful permanent residents, who have jumped through years of hoops to comply with the intricate immigration rules enshrined in U.S. law, are no longer protected by that law. They can be deported at the whim of the President, or his advisers, or a Border Patrol agent. (The order originally barred lawful permanent residents, though after some confusion, now it will not, unless the Secretary of Homeland Security wants it to. On the other hand, soon it may apply to citizens.) The nation of laws that they immigrated to is gone, replaced by a nation of arbitrary rule.

If the president can, without consulting the courts or Congress, banish U.S. lawful permanent residents, then he can do anything. If there is no rule of law for some people, there is no rule of law for anyone. The reason the U.S. is a good place to do business is that, for the last 228 years, it has built a firm foundation on the rule of law. It almost undid that in a weekend. That's bad for business.
01-30-2017 , 11:55 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul McSwizzle
The type of state you describe requires support from the population.

It doesn't go down like that. Not our culture.
This is a zero-sum game for trump.
01-30-2017 , 11:56 AM
Is there any polling with regards to the public support of the ban? Im surprised there hasnt been any yet.
01-30-2017 , 11:56 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tomdemaine
Banning piet_evil until we can figure out whats going on and introduce some extreme vetting of politics posters.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Praetor
lol
had the same reaction
01-30-2017 , 12:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by champstark
Once we know who it is, it will happen.

Fingers crossed it's Hardiman. Dems should still filibuster absolutely anyone, though.
If Bannon is telling him what to do - then it's probably reasonable to assume the SC pick will be the most bat**** crazy person they can find.
01-30-2017 , 12:02 PM
piet dismissing racist acts as political moves reminds me of Kellyanne Conway saying not to take Trump literally but to look into his heart.
01-30-2017 , 12:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by suitedjustice
I've been working on a project to summarize Trump's first 100 days, but there's just so much of it that I'll have to post it in 10-day blocks. I tried to be as crisp as possible here, as again, there's a lot to work with. If I missed anything substantial, let me know. Also, if you like this, let me know and I'll post days 11-20 when the time comes.
Just based on a quick skim, this looks like great stuff. My personal suggestion is that:

- You post every day after a day's update. If there are concerns over the length then maybe put the text in one of those spoiler alert boxy things. This would be especially useful if people add or comment on the text and you tweak the odd bit.

- No doubt the actual text looks different in it's native app, but there may be value in putting background info (ie not news, but relevant info to an event that occurred in the day) in square brackets or something like that.

- I have a thing about quotes being in italics! Not worth hassle when pasting in here of course and, as above, I'm sure it looks different where you write it. Same thing about bullet points!

- You confirm whether you are happy for this to be copied and pasted anywhere else (I realise that this is a public forum and you can't stop it, but still....).
01-30-2017 , 12:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by valenzuela
Is there any polling with regards to the public support of the ban? Im surprised there hasnt been any yet.
Serious question - I assume that the USA has reliable independent polling organisations? I've not heard of Trump trying to diss them so his supporters can yell "FAKE NEWS" etc, so I'm guessing that polling isn't a huge deal in terms of making the news in between elections.
01-30-2017 , 12:07 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by snafoo
To be fair, it could by the Trump regime. They have their ways with alternate facts.
Sure, afair that actually happened already. Just don't want the claim stand here untested that Germany is in some way an example of failed integration - it's still basically the same place it's been for all my life, if anything, it's much safer on "the streets" now than it was when I grew up.

Last edited by Europa; 01-30-2017 at 12:09 PM. Reason: ...for which I blame the internet and game consoles, not immigration lol
01-30-2017 , 12:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by rafiki
What was the motivation behind the Holocaust Remembrance Day statement? Any guesses? Because that's no small potatoes in the Jewish community. I'm comforted that my grandfather wasn't alive to see that.
I'm not sure why he excluded mentioning Jews during the statement. I don't see what is gained.

I'm also not sure why it's such a huge deal. Everybody knows what happened to them. Not everybody knows about the other groups that were targeted such as gypsies, homosexuals, communists etc.

Not mentioning Jews is not denying that it happened. It's just a pretty dumb omission.
01-30-2017 , 12:16 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BI1VHMSI0E4

did Hitler have young Jewish guy has a top advisor too?
01-30-2017 , 12:17 PM
Quote:
Not mentioning Jews is not denying that it happened. It's just a pretty dumb omission.
Not when it just happened to coincide with this unconstitutional Muslim Ban Trump just enacted. There's no way that's a coincidence. And Bannon is definitely a Nazi--look at the themes of the inaugural address ("America First"), look at the friends he has and some of his quotes (about wanting riots in the streets), all of this is signaling. They're trying to let us know exactly where they stand, and again I say, we should listen to them.
01-30-2017 , 12:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by valenzuela
Is there any polling with regards to the public support of the ban? Im surprised there hasnt been any yet.
http://insider.foxnews.com/2017/01/2...igration-order

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By a margin of 48 percent to 42 percent, voters supported "suspending immigration from terror prone regions, even if it means turning away refugees."

the poll is from early January
01-30-2017 , 12:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by einbert
And Bannon is definitely a Nazi
I could just as easily argue that he'd want to put Jews in the speech just to get off a little bit while it's being said. I don't think it says much about Bannon or Trump.
01-30-2017 , 12:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DTD
Serious question - I assume that the USA has reliable independent polling organisations? I've not heard of Trump trying to diss them so his supporters can yell "FAKE NEWS" etc, so I'm guessing that polling isn't a huge deal in terms of making the news in between elections.
01-30-2017 , 12:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperUberBob
I'm not sure why he excluded mentioning Jews during the statement. I don't see what is gained.

I'm also not sure why it's such a huge deal. Everybody knows what happened to them. Not everybody knows about the other groups that were targeted such as gypsies, homosexuals, communists etc.

Not mentioning Jews is not denying that it happened. It's just a pretty dumb omission.
Not mentioning the Jews is straight from the holocaust deniers' playbook. There are two versions of holocaust denial with regard to the attempted extermination of the jewish people. The first version is that it didn't happen, and the second is that "a lot of innocent people died, it was war." It is a big deal that the administration is putting out the same viewpoint on the holocaust as anti-semitic white power hate groups.
01-30-2017 , 12:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tomdemaine
Banning piet_evil until we can figure out whats going on and introduce some extreme vetting of politics posters.
I'm in favor of an indefinite banning of Politics 7.0 refugees.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jman220
Not mentioning the Jews is straight from the holocaust deniers' playbook. There are two versions of holocaust denial with regard to the attempted extermination of the jewish people. The first version is that it didn't happen, and the second is that "a lot of innocent people died, it was war." It is a big deal that the administration is putting out the same viewpoint on the holocaust as anti-semitic white power hate groups.
Ah, Holocaust denial is more diverse than I had expected.

Last edited by SuperUberBob; 01-30-2017 at 12:34 PM.
01-30-2017 , 12:28 PM
California bros,

We have some calls to make.

01-30-2017 , 12:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by .isolated
I could just as easily argue that he'd want to put Jews in the speech just to get off a little bit while it's being said. I don't think it says much about Bannon or Trump.
If you start saying "everyone" was affected by the holocaust instead of "mostly Jews" were don't you see how that minimizes Jewish involvement? It's like saying Banana Cream Pie is a great fruit pie.
01-30-2017 , 12:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperUberBob
Not mentioning Jews is not denying that it happened. It's just a pretty dumb omission.
It's not straight-up denying it happened, but it is a proven part of the Holocaust denier's playbook. It's a step in that direction.

The Trump Administration (Hope Hicks?) doubled-down on the omission, saying it was done purposefully. Obviously, they claimed it was because they wanted to have an all-encompassing remembrance, but I mean, come on.

Other groups that were killed can still be mentioned, but Jews HAVE to be not only mentioned, but emphasized. The reason for the Holocaust was to exterminate Jews. The omission of Jews from the statement was intentional and hostile.
01-30-2017 , 12:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jman220
Not mentioning the Jews is straight from the holocaust deniers' playbook. There are two versions of holocaust denial with regard to the attempted extermination of the jewish people. The first version is that it didn't happen, and the second is that "a lot of innocent people died, it was war." It is a big deal that the administration is putting out the same viewpoint on the holocaust as anti-semitic white power hate groups.
This being the case, I don't understand why Netanyahu is so chummy with Trump and company. One would think the Israeli government would have some reservations about Bannon...regardless of Kushner being there.
01-30-2017 , 12:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chippa58
This being the case, I don't understand why Netanyahu is so chummy with Trump and company. One would think the Israeli government would have some reservations about Bannon...regardless of Kushner being there.
Netanyahu is dancing with the devil.

      
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