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The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: No smocking guns. The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: No smocking guns.

05-06-2017 , 01:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobman0330
I assumed this was all faux-progressive concern trolling, but this this is so dumb that it could have been written by a real leftist. Quick, how do you feel about Jill Stein?
Don't follow her enough to fully know her positions, but pretty sure I've heard a few I didn't agree with. Would still favor her over Trump for sure (but then, I'd favor a random 12 year old over him). I'd have considered Gary Johnson if I didn't think he was bat**** crazy (but I also vehemently disagreed with him on (I think?) abortion).

The truth is (and what most here don't seem to understand) is that it's possible to care about more than one thing at a time. It's possible to be for the 2A (a conservative position) and still be pro choice. I think for myself and many times I'm wrong and have to re-evaluate my position. But I'd rather be an independent and wrong sometimes than to be a sheep and blindly follow one party or the other across the board.
05-06-2017 , 02:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lestat
Yeah, she talks the talk. I'll give her that. But when she had the opportunity to put her money where her mouth was and had the chance to back a TRUE progressive like Sanders (who btw, would actually implement the action needed to take on the big banks and corporate greed she so often talks about), she chickened out and went with the political status quo and backed the annointed DNC candidate HRC.

So I hold a grudge on that.

Also, I'm not a political junkie so excuse me if this is wrong, but I believe she voted to confirm Ben Carson. Ben Carson!
That's not her talking record it's her voting record. Also regarding the big banks she has introduced bills for a 21st century glass-steagall act more than once.
05-06-2017 , 02:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Noodle Wazlib
Okay, so I stand corrected. But I was right that she originally was going to vote to confirm him. I'm all about being forgiving and allowing one to change their mind. But Ben Carson? This is a neurosurgeon who doesn't believe in evolution with ZERO experience in the department he's heading. Why do you think she ever thought he would be fine?
05-06-2017 , 02:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by microbet
That's not her talking record it's her voting record. Also regarding the big banks she has introduced bills for a 21st century glass-steagall act more than once.
Like I said. I believe she's progressive. But the only TRUE progressive candidate was Sanders and I believe she was for HRC all along. If I'm wrong. I'm wrong, but that was my take. If you can convince me she would have preferred a Sanders presidency over HRC, I'll change my mind about her very quickly.
05-06-2017 , 02:07 PM
Is this thread about Donald Trump really now about the faults of his polar opposite
05-06-2017 , 02:08 PM
Also in regards to Warren's criticism of Democrats her interview about Hillary and the bankruptcy bill was absolutely the best, most credible, and relevant critique of Hillary in the primary race. ( UPS excluding some foreign policy stuff.)
05-06-2017 , 02:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by watevs
Is this thread about Donald Trump really now about the faults of his polar opposite
No, it's about her imagined faults.
05-06-2017 , 02:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RV Life
People keep bringing up Sanders should have won the primary. But he was never winning. Like ever. And I say that as someone that likes Sanders and would have preferred him over Clinton.

Socialism is a very scary word in the US. Instead of Trump screaming "E-Mails!" he would have been screaming "Socialist!" It would have had the same affect.

Facts do not matter to low information voters. Emotions matter.
Totally agree with your last sentence. I also agree that "Socialism" is a scary word to conservatives. But Sanders definitely appealed to the emotion of voters and think he had a much better chance of beating Trump than HRC ever did. I honestly can't decide if I'm a socialist or not. I just want a FAIR system. If that's socialism, so be it. But Democrats are not for a fair system. They are corrupt just in far subtler ways than the GOP is.
05-06-2017 , 02:17 PM
"Subtler" eh. Really should just read 'less corrupt'.
05-06-2017 , 02:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lestat
Don't follow her enough to fully know her positions, but pretty sure I've heard a few I didn't agree with. Would still favor her over Trump for sure (but then, I'd favor a random 12 year old over him). I'd have considered Gary Johnson if I didn't think he was bat**** crazy (but I also vehemently disagreed with him on (I think?) abortion).

The truth is (and what most here don't seem to understand) is that it's possible to care about more than one thing at a time. It's possible to be for the 2A (a conservative position) and still be pro choice. I think for myself and many times I'm wrong and have to re-evaluate my position. But I'd rather be an independent and wrong sometimes than to be a sheep and blindly follow one party or the other across the board.
You give this same spiel in about 1/2 of your posts here. You're perpetually trying to save face.
05-06-2017 , 02:20 PM
Based on the topic it appears that Trump didn't do anything uniquely stupid yet.
05-06-2017 , 02:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lestat
Totally agree with your last sentence. I also agree that "Socialism" is a scary word to conservatives. But Sanders definitely appealed to the emotion of voters and think he had a much better chance of beating Trump than HRC ever did. I honestly can't decide if I'm a socialist or not. I just want a FAIR system. If that's socialism, so be it. But Democrats are not for a fair system. They are corrupt just in far subtler ways than the GOP is.
He did. And he would have. Played much better with Midwestern working class whites, viewed as more honest and trustworthy, hasn't flip-flopped on his positions over the years, would've drawn out more young people. He wins Michigan no sweat, probably Wisconsin, and then all he needs is to improve on her performance by winning 1 of the 3 of FL/PA/NC.

There's no state he'd have lost that she won.
05-06-2017 , 02:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by microbet
Show your work.

http://progressivepunch.org/scores.htm?house=senate

Kamala Harris and Chris Van Hollen just got into the Senate this term so their lifetime score doesn't mean anything and Kamala Harris won't end up that high on the list for a Democrat (not too low either). I don't know anything about Van Hollen. E.Warren is the 2nd most progressive for someone with a voting record according to this site.
Before I clicked this or read your comments, I was of the mind that Kamala should be the 2020 D pick. She has no identifiable negative. There's no way this strong, intelligent, experienced, liberal woman of color loses to Donald Trump, when it took TWENTY-FIVE years of character assassination of Hillary Clinton for Trump to win by 78K votes across three states.
05-06-2017 , 03:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by einbert
He's not dead on about religion. He paints Islam as a violent cult, and the truth is 99.9% of people practicing Islam are totally peaceful, hard-working, loving people.
It is a deadly cult, as is Christianity.
05-06-2017 , 03:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lestat
I'll take a 79 year old Sanders over a 70 year old Trump any day of the week and twice on Sunday.
But not on election day, I would guess.

Quote:
Btw- I do believe that Warren is a progressive. The problem is that she only throws punches at the GOP and not at corrupt members of her own party. In other words, she falls in line. Sanders had the guts to stand up for what's right regardless of who's party he alienated. THAT'S a true progressive!
Not only is this not true about Warren, what?

Like man, I'm all ****ing on board with leftist purity tests. Full communism baby, let's run it.

But Lestat, you're an #AllLivesMatter guy who thinks Democrats support the social safety net to keep people poor, you think non-racist people getting called racist for non-racistly opposing Muslim immigration caused them to vote for Trump as a glorious revenge against PC, and let's not even get into the trans people in bathrooms ****.


The MOMENT you hear any of Sanders rhetoric on race or poverty, you're jumping off that bandwagon in a ****ing instant. The only thing you like about Sanders is you vaguely associate him with anti-establishment rhetoric, when we leave the abstract and get to the specifics it's going to get ugly.
05-06-2017 , 04:02 PM
05-06-2017 , 04:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clovis8
The rationing thing is so weird because it's, of course, totally false (at least in Canada).

To be fair, our Canadian system is not perfect. For example, there can often be long waits for non-critical procedures like knee replacements. My mother waited more than a year for this. On the flip side it cost her nothing as opposed to the tens of thousands it would have cost in the US.

For critical care there is no wait. My friends father recently has a triple bipass and it was a couple days from diagnosis to the surgery. Again it cost him nothing.
This is weird kind of semantics game. Wait times for care is a form of rationing, but as you note it's done reasonably effectively. "Rationing", meaning treating very sick people first, isn't a reason to criticize a health care system. Canada's health care system is fine. The problem with Canada's health care system is the outlandishly high expectations that Canadians have of their health care system. People want to believe that we have universal, immediate, high quality health care for everybody so they're naturally disappointed with any alleged "failing" of the system. Like, parking prices at Toronto hospitals has been a massive scandal. HOW CAN YOU CHARGE $40 DOLLARS FOR PARKING HEALTH CARE IS SUPPOSED TO BE FREE!?!?!?
05-06-2017 , 04:03 PM
Don't
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clovis8
It is a deadly cult, as is Christianity.
Lol @ you and anyone else who tries to put Christianity in the same category as Islam. I know you guys are especially salty at Christians right now but try not to let your saltiness cloud your judgement.

Last edited by beastalamode; 05-06-2017 at 04:06 PM. Reason: Don't make me post the pew research pie chart
05-06-2017 , 04:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lestat
Okay, so I stand corrected. But I was right that she originally was going to vote to confirm him. I'm all about being forgiving and allowing one to change their mind. But Ben Carson? This is a neurosurgeon who doesn't believe in evolution with ZERO experience in the department he's heading. Why do you think she ever thought he would be fine?
Fine is a relative term in this environment. Sometimes you accept the horror you know to avoid the unknown horror that may have been his substitute.

If your argument was that she was being reasonable, I would agree but also point out that maybe isn't a bad thing.
05-06-2017 , 04:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by beastalamode
Don't

Lol @ you and anyone else who tries to put Christianity in the same category as Islam. I know you guys are especially salty at Christians right now but try not to let your saltiness cloud your judgement.
True. Islam is more believable. Unless you mean something else when you say "category", like how nice it feels or whatever.
05-06-2017 , 04:11 PM
Lunatic christians killed half a million Iraqis, while fanatic muslims killed 3,000 on 9/11. Pretty clear that the brown people are in the wrong here.

/sarcasm
05-06-2017 , 04:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by beastalamode
Don't

Lol @ you and anyone else who tries to put Christianity in the same category as Islam. I know you guys are especially salty at Christians right now but try not to let your saltiness cloud your judgement.
Degree, not kind.
05-06-2017 , 04:24 PM
Quit talking smack about my sweet sexy Jesus.
05-06-2017 , 05:03 PM
http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer...-ideology.html

This is a insightful look at how Trump's gibberish(to us) played so well outside the bubble politics junkies
05-06-2017 , 05:30 PM
Trump is a machine learning algorithm. He says stuff and gauges he reaction. Positive reaction gets repeated, negative reaction gets dropped. That's all he knows.

      
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