I agree with this entirely.

If Health Care is a shared resource among the entire public, then the public needs to come to a frank, honest conclusion about what the goal of health care in America should be.

Right now, the goal of health care in America is basically "For those insured or who can afford it, provide the best chance at the best outcome with no regard for how much it costs"

There are certain diseases, conditions, for which there is no long-term chance at a healthy life. We pump hundreds of thousands of dollars per patient on experimental drugs and treatments that only have a chance at extending their lives by a few months.

It sounds cold and callous because each life should be considered unique, and each person should be given their best chance at a full healthy life by the health care system, but there are value calculations that have to be made regarding things like end of life care and terminal illnesses to make sure the system of shared health care resources is sustainable.

100% agree.

What I would support is a UHC system that covers base level care and reasonable expenses for sick people, with lifetime limits and approved / unapproved things and we can have a free market system on top of that for people who want to and can spend more.

Zimmer yep.

I'll get on board with a discussion about end of life care when these *******s stop cutting access to further enrich millionaires and billionaires

This thread going from "medicare for all" to "well, probably should cull old, sick people to save costs because we don't have enough resources" in a day is an interesting turn. How do you guys think countries with universal healthcare pay for that ****?

The premise that you can't afford the sick or elderly is false, especially in light of an aging population that will be dealt with humanely in all Western nations.

You mean you don't think Republicans are evil after the **** they pulled yesterday?? THEY ****ING CELEBRATED PEOPLES' SICKNESS AND DEATHS!

And newsflash (since you brought up the comparison): Donald Trump is more bought and paid for than you can imagine.

This is going to be one of the propaganda campaigns Republicans use to decrease turnout and get people on the left to stay home in 2018. Count on it. HastenDan is probably doing A-B testing for that very purpose today.

Anybody who is complaining about Hillary and ironically using the phrase "those evil Republicans" the day after AHCA was passed in the House should have absolutely zero credibility. Use some common sense people, come on.

Our House,

Yeah of course he is, on top of being a straight up narcissist, unintelligent, immoral, and not curious about the world. He stinks, it all sucks. We would unquestionably be better off as a society had Hillary won the presidency, democrats controlled the House and Senate and state legislatures.

They all suck, it is brutal and a nightmare scenario. I was just referencing einbert saying "The only question is why aren't we spending those resources on humanity, why instead are we spending them on wars, destruction of the planet, and propping up the already massively wealthy.", and that well the full answer to such a broad and big question has a lot more dirty answers than just 'Those Evil Republicans And Trump', answers which sadly too many are unwilling to recognize due to blind partisanship and being brainwashed, so that we will never actually reach a real solution.

I don't think anyone except awvall was saying we should cull old sick people.

Where's Liar Spice today? The fill in appears to be struggling.

Remember for like the last decade how selling health insurance across state lines and tort reform were magic bullets to fix health care? How many times were we told that if those dumb dummmy libtards would just get out of the way and let the free market work - we'd all have glorious health insurance?

So yeah, what happened to that? Instead we get tax cuts for the rich and removal of pre-existing conditions protections.

And I agree with this 100%.

We can asses the real world costs under Universal Health Care once we actually have Universal Coverage for everyone in place. Then we'll see if we have some places with out of control costs that need to be discussed.

It is all bull****. I have friends across every aspect of the healthcare industry and there is not a single one that does not think that the entire system across the board is massively ****ing the common man.

Cory Booker voted against allowing the import of cheap drugs from Canada!

much better we divert those resources to the .1%

awval, HastenDan and poconoder are the violinists playing on the Titanic while the ship is sinking.

Its not just end of life care, its quality of life as well.

Some 30 year gets cancer, totally random, so they just die now? or pay 140,000 a year in premiums?

for life?


AHCA is this don't get sick or you'll die

they are the iceberg

No, a 30 year old who gets cancer should be covered to a reasonable degree, and anything that is covered under the UHC plan should not involve them paying anything extra, however there should obviously be some cutoff before they stop being covered.

If it would cost $10mm per year to keep them alive, that should not be covered.

Look up U.K.'s NHS NICE panel. Evaluation and cost-effectiveness.

It is brutal man and the whole thing is a crime against humanity. Tax the rich, but even more so the corporations. Close the tax loopholes for these corporations. Massively increase the tax rates. Every level and aspect of the healthcare industry is incentivized to bone the common man. Cheap drugs, fair prices, break the monopolies, put an end to the vampires sucking all of the equity out of the system. The problem is there are too many vampires and they hold all the keys to power.

Zimmer, Dan, simplicitus, etc. are totally right about the need for a serious conversation on end of life care. Too many people are being left alive in hospitals with no quality of life and no hope because they or (more likely) their families can't let go for whatever reason. More funding needs to go to palliative care.

That being said, it's such an incredibly small sidebar to the misery that's about to heaped on the American people overall that anyone who cites it as a reason this bill is good is completely full of ****.

WaPo' Plum Line going hard in the paint:

Oh yeah I agree and by no means referencing discussion on the efficient allocation of resources as justification for this bill as being anything other than a complete ****ing of the American civilian and highway robbery by the corporate elites. I consider such actions a crime against humanity.

It makes me forgetful more than dumb. I definitely smoked a lot before the ****posting storm, and once people started responded I just went into chat room mode. I don't regret my positions but the quality of my posts was definitely sub-standard ^_^