The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: No smocking guns. - Page 1086 - Politics and Economics

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The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: No smocking guns.

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04-21-2017 , 10:46 AM

#27126

fatkid

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Nov 2011 Posts: 8,860

Rachel killed it last night. Good stuff.

http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow/w...s-926017091769

04-21-2017 , 10:53 AM

#27127

einbert

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 14,911

The death penalty is awful, and its use in America is absolutely horrid. It is most often used in a racist and discriminatory way, and it is most often used against criminals that did not have the means for a proper legal defense. It is quite clear to me that Arkansas is not in the right, having lied to obtain their death penalty drugs and it also is quite apparent that they are blocking the testing of DNA evidence which might have exonerated our hero.

You might think the death penalty is just another criminal process that is applied equally to everyone, but I can guarantee you that is not the case. Not here in Alabama, that's for sure. There are many incentives which clear the way for racially discriminatory sentences and the death penalty is at the top of that list. If this man were white or had the means for a proper legal defense in the first place, he would most likely never have been in this position to begin with.

The death penalty in its current form is abhorrent, discriminatory, and unreliable. It ought to be abolished immediately and any Supreme Court justice worth their salt would issue an immediate halt of all of these death penalty cases until it can be completely abolished.

04-21-2017 , 10:54 AM

#27128

einbert

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 14,911

With Gorsuch and Sessions you can definitely expect a return to the kind of discriminatory justice practices that brought us mass incarceration and the war on drugs. Don't obey in advance, people. That's one of the worst things you can do under an authoritarian regime.

https://medium.com/@wordsnwine/by-ti...y-3866a6038fd5

Quote:

Do not obey in advance. Much of the power of authoritarianism is freely given. In times like these, individuals think ahead about what a more repressive government will want, and then start to do it without being asked. You’ve already done this, haven’t you? Stop. Anticipatory obedience teaches authorities what is possible and accelerates unfreedom.

04-21-2017 , 10:56 AM

#27129

einbert

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Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 14,911

Quote:

The race of the defendant is not supposed to influence whether a person is sentenced to death, but in Philadelphia it clearly does. (See Chart above.) Murders by blacks are treated as more severe and "deserving" of the death penalty because of the defendant's race. Being a black defendant merits a score of 1.4 in predicting whether a death sentence will ultimately result. This extra burden for black defendants is comparable to such legitimate aggravating factors as torture or "causing great harm, fear or pain," which earned scores of 1.9 and 1.0 respectively, in predicting the sentence. Stated differently, in Philadelphia, the capital sentencing statute has operated as though being black was not merely a physical attribute, but as if it were one of the most important aggravating factors actually justifying the death penalty.

The race of the defendant is a much stronger predictor that a case will result in a death sentence than the fact that the crime was committed along with another felony (0.8) or that the defendant killed with multiple stab wounds (0.9). Either when the prosecutor decides to seek the death penalty in a particular case, or when the jury decides that death is the appropriate sentence, on average, black defendants are considered "worse," regardless of the other factors in their case.

https://deathpenaltyinfo.org/death-p...ides#Study%201

04-21-2017 , 10:58 AM

#27130

einbert

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Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 14,911

Seemingly innocent factors like the existence of elected judges within a system can suddenly shift a system from proper and fair to completely racially discriminatory, and the death penalty is one of the most influenced factors by such a political system.

In states with elected high court judges, a harder line on capital punishment
Justices chosen by voters reverse death penalties at less than half the rate of those who are appointed, a Reuters analysis finds, suggesting that politics play a part in appeals. Now, the U.S. Supreme Court is about to decide whether to take up the issue in the case of a Ohio cop killer.
http://www.reuters.com/investigates/...enalty-judges/

04-21-2017 , 11:04 AM

#27131

einbert

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Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 14,911

Racism and the Death Penalty: New Evidence
http://www.ebony.com/news-views/raci...#axzz4eteK4PeU

Quote:

A significant new study finding racial bias in Harris County’s death penalty system was released today in an appeal filed by condemned prisoner, Duane Buck, in Harris County’s 208th Criminal District Court. Mr. Buck challenges his death sentence as an unconstitutional product of racial discrimination and presents research showing that at the time of his 1997 capital trial, the Harris County District Attorney’s Office was over three times more likely to seek the death penalty against African American defendants like himself, than against similarly-situated white defendants. The research also shows that Harris County juries were more than twice as likely to impose death sentences on African American defendants in cases like Mr. Buck’s, than on similarly situated white defendants.

Mr. Buck, who seeks a new, fair sentencing hearing, cites a recent analysis conducted by University of Maryland Professor Ray Paternoster. Prof. Paternoster, who has more than 35 years of experience in criminology and quantitative methods, examined data on over 500 Harris County cases in order to identify and compare, based on a comprehensive set of variables, the cases most similar to Mr. Buck’s. Prof. Paternoster found that in the cases like Mr. Buck’s, the Harris County District Attorney’s Office sought the death penalty 20 percent of the time when the defendant was white and 70 percent of the time when the defendant was African-American. This sharp disparity was similarly present in the decisions of Harris County sentencing juries: juries imposed death 20 percent of the time in the cases similar to Mr. Buck’s, that involved white defendants and 40 percent of the time in the cases involving African-American defendants

“We are all at risk when our justice system allows prosecutors and juries to exercise lethal discretion based on race,” said Sherrilyn Ifill, Director Counsel for the NAACP Legal Defense & Educational Fund, Inc. which represents Duane Buck, along with Kathryn Kase of the Texas Defender Service and attorney Kate Black. “Duane Buck's case is as much about his own unlawful death sentence as it is about the ability of Harris County's criminal justice system to produce outcomes free from the taint of racial discrimination."

David Kirk, Associate Professor of Sociology at The University of Texas at Austin, said that “Professor Paternoster's research conforms to highly rigorous standards for statistical analyses. His conclusion – that there is strong evidence of Black-White disparities in the advancement of cases to a death trial as well as the imposition of a death sentence – is the logical, and profoundly disturbing, conclusion to be drawn from the weight of the available data."

The evidence of racial discrimination in Mr. Buck’s case is not limited to Prof. Paternoster’s recent study. At Mr. Buck’s capital sentencing hearing, the trial prosecutor elicited testimony from a psychologist that Mr. Buck posed a future danger to society because he is black. The prosecutor relied on this testimony in arguing in favor of a death sentence. The jury accepted the prosecutor’s argument, declared Mr. Buck a future danger, and sentenced him to death. Three years later, then-Texas Attorney General (now U.S. Senator) John Cornyn acknowledged that reliance on testimony connecting race to dangerousness was wholly unacceptable and promised that the Attorney General’s Office would seek new, fair sentencing hearings for seven people, including Mr. Buck, whose cases were tainted by such testimony. The State kept its word in every case – except for Mr. Buck’s.

04-21-2017 , 11:06 AM

#27132

Riverman

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Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 73,135

Man Sarah Palin is somehow an even bigger piece of **** than I thought

http://nymag.com/thecut/2017/04/sara...facebook_nymag

04-21-2017 , 11:08 AM

#27133

einbert

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Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 14,911

Quote:

Originally Posted by goofyballer

This is not a good post. There's no indication whatsoever that Gorsuch was some kind of swing vote here and that without him, nobody would have been executed tonight. If anything, the WaPo article I found said (with possibly ambiguous wording) that no judges dissented in denying the stay.

5-4 decision, and Gorsuch is one of the most conservative justices on the court. It most likely would have gone the other way with Garland (of course I can't say for sure).

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/ledell-l...on-since-2005/

Quote:

The U.S. Supreme Court by a 5-4 vote rejected appeals that would have halted Ledell Lee’s execution, but more were expected Thursday night.

04-21-2017 , 11:10 AM

#27134

einbert

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I can keep posting evidence that the death penalty is racially discriminatory (in the United States) but we might be here for a while. There are just reams and reams and reams of evidence, it's not even something questionable at this point. It's a scientific fact.

04-21-2017 , 11:14 AM

#27135

TheHip41

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you mad?

04-21-2017 , 11:15 AM

#27136

einbert

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I have to say, if "liberals" are supporting the death penalty in its current form, we really do have a racism problem in the Democratic Party.

04-21-2017 , 11:18 AM

#27137

well named

poorly undertitled

Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 78,078

Quote:

Originally Posted by einbert

I have to say, if "liberals" are supporting the death penalty in its current form, we really do have a racism problem in the Democratic Party.

I can't speak for anyone else, but I read the push-back you got towards your first post on this subject to be directed at the contention that the guy was innocent, rather than as support for the death penalty.

edit: to be clear, I oppose the death penalty. I agree that the criminal justice system is racially discriminatory, including capital punishment. I don't have an opinion on the specific case because I know nothing about it. I would oppose the execution even if I were certain he were guilty, but it would change the way I'd argue for my opposition...

04-21-2017 , 11:19 AM

#27138

11t

Bo Pelini's #1 Fan

Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 31,542

Beyond the racism, we straight up execute innocent people

04-21-2017 , 11:21 AM

#27139

einbert

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Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 14,911

Quote:

Originally Posted by well named

Well that's my bad then. I wasn't clear in my original post.

To be perfectly clear: this guy may be guilty as sin, and if so he should spend the rest of his life in prison. But the death penalty as it is applied to people violates the 14th amendment right to equal protection under the Constitution, and it also violates the 8th amendment protection from cruel and unusual punishment. It should be totally abolished, or at the very least put on hiatus, and I do believe Supreme Court justices have the right to do that.

04-21-2017 , 11:49 AM

#27140

champstark

aka starkwired

Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 14,838

Quote:

Originally Posted by einbert

That all is true, but the KEY argument against the death penalty is that it is morally ****ing wrong. We have no place ending someone's life when that person is no longer a threat to anyone. It's a relic of a "let God sort it out" mentality.

Of course, one can also argue it is not a useful deterrent in any way, either, so it serves no criminal punishment theory.

As far as I can tell, the ONLY argument in favor of the death penalty is to sate someone's bloodthirst for revenge.

04-21-2017 , 11:51 AM

#27141

goofyballer

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Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 70,719

Quote:

Originally Posted by einbert

I apologize; you were right to tie Gorsuch to this and I was wrong to criticize you.

04-21-2017 , 11:56 AM

#27142

tomdemaine

Just tries harder

Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 20,065

Quote:

Originally Posted by champstark

Yeah. 'Citizens killed by their own government' feels like a number that we should be trying to reduce in all cases no?

04-21-2017 , 11:57 AM

#27143

Our House

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Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 28,109

Quote:

Originally Posted by Our House

Oh, forgot to mention earlier that Russian bombers flew close to Alaska again last night, for the 2nd day in a row. They were 100 miles off shore on Monday and 36 miles away yesterday. We'll see if this pattern continues tonight I guess.

4 times in 4 days: Russian military aircraft fly off US coast

Quote:

White House press secretary Sean Spicer said earlier this year that Trump had been taking a tough line with Russia and that he expected Moscow to withdraw from [Crimea], which it has occupied since 2014.

I wouldn't mind if they cheated, or exaggerated, or even lied every once in a while like the government just does, but for these guys the truth is a completely foreign concept. And we all know how Trump feels about foreigners.

04-21-2017 , 12:03 PM

#27144

master3004

Revisionist Historian

Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 56,466

Quote:

Originally Posted by simplicitus

According to the NY Times article Trump spent hours with Palin, kid rock, and neugent.

I too occasionally do other things when i don't know how to do what I'm supposed to be doing.

Oh man, I got this calculus paper due in the morning...

Welp, better fire up Hearthstone

04-21-2017 , 12:05 PM

#27145

einbert

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Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 14,911

For anyone who's not familiar, these particular parts of our Constitution are gonna be extremely important for the next few years:

https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/equal_protection

Quote:

The Equal Protection Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment of the U.S. Constitution prohibits states from denying any person within its territory the equal protection of the laws. This means that a state must treat an individual in the same manner as others in similar conditions and circumstances. The Federal Government must do the same, but this is required by the Fifth Amendment Due Process.

The point of the equal protection clause is to force a state to govern impartially—not draw distinctions between individuals solely on differences that are irrelevant to a legitimate governmental objective. Thus, the equal protection clause is crucial to the protection of civil rights.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/constitu...ghth_amendment

Quote:

Amendment VIII

Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted.

04-21-2017 , 12:08 PM

#27146

master3004

Revisionist Historian

Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 56,466

Quote:

Originally Posted by Huehuecoyotl

http://www.politico.com/story/2017/0...-speech-237431

Jesus. He literally knows nothing about our laws

04-21-2017 , 12:12 PM

#27147

wheatrich

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he knows the laws, he just thinks they shouldn't apply to him

04-21-2017 , 12:13 PM

#27148

MrWookie

Don't Call Me Meredith

Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 94,159

Quote:

Originally Posted by master3004

Jesus. He literally knows nothing about our laws

Trump just riding a pretty common right wing sentiment.

04-21-2017 , 12:14 PM

#27149

RV Life

old hand

Join Date: Jun 2016 Posts: 1,935

Yea, the DP is wrong, period. It's revenge right out of the bible. **** that.

The fact that Arkansas is rushing this due to the expiration date of these drugs should be a scandal. Instead, people are treating it like an expired date on a milk carton. "Hurry up and finish it before it goes bad!"

04-21-2017 , 12:18 PM

#27150

RV Life

old hand

Join Date: Jun 2016 Posts: 1,935

Quote:

Originally Posted by master3004

Jesus. He literally knows nothing about our laws

Trump is like that guy that has a Super Bowl party and then kicks the one person rooting for the other team out.

He thinks the same thing applies here. It's his rally. They should be there to support him, not protest.

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