The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: No smocking guns. - Page 2607 - Politics and Economics

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The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: No smocking guns.

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10-30-2017 , 11:43 AM

#65151

Namath12

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Max Cut

https://twitter.com/speechboy71/stat...15320884072449

Heh a verified @JohnKelly replied similarly

10-30-2017 , 11:43 AM

#65152

MonsterJMcgee

veteran

Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 3,001

10-30-2017 , 11:47 AM

#65153

yeSpiff

old hand

Join Date: Dec 2013 Posts: 1,313

bing bing bong bong

10-30-2017 , 11:47 AM

#65154

Huehuecoyotl

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Quote:

Originally Posted by cuserounder

[I]a. For example,-on or about June 19, 2016, after several email and Skype exchanges with the Russian MFA Connection, defendant PAPADOPOULOS emailed the High Ranking Campaign Official, with the subject line "New message from Russia": "The Russian ministry of foreign affairs messaged and said that if Mr. Trump is unable to make it to Russia, if a campaign rep (me or someone else) can make it for meetings? I am willing to make the trip off the record if it's in the interest of Mr. Trump and the campaign to meet specific people."

Hummmm

10-30-2017 , 11:50 AM

#65155

+rep_lol

banned

Join Date: Sep 2013 Posts: 14,900

Quote:

Originally Posted by SuperUberBob

So far, much of this appears akin to arresting Al Capone for tax evasion because they couldn't get him for his other crimes.

Maybe they're just reeling them in with the obvious no-brainer charges before digging in and getting at colluding with a foreign power.

No for real tho, stfu with ur neverending debbie downer routine

Dont care about your feels brah

10-30-2017 , 11:51 AM

#65156

eyebooger

Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 58,717

Quote:

Originally Posted by Huehuecoyotl

Hummmm

ohpleaseohpleaseohplease

10-30-2017 , 11:52 AM

#65157

Namath12

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Quote:

Originally Posted by cuserounder

Look at the Papadopolous timeline in the indictment, and splice in other events... For example... All of the italics are from the indictment. Bolded are my additions.

21. From mid-June through mid-August 2016, PAPADOPOULOS pursued an "off the record" meeting between one or more Carnpaign representatives and "members of president putin's office and the mfa."

It's worth noting that up until this point (which goes back to March), it appears the higher ranking campaign official weren't pursuing this particularly aggressively. They were listening, but not really setting anything up.

June 1-8 - Donald Trump Jr. is informed that Veselnitskaya has dirt on Clinton. (Based on reporting that this e-mail communication took place in June before the meeting).

June 9 - Donald Trump Jr. meets with Veselnitskaya. Manafort and Kushner are present for some period of time.

a. For example,-on or about June 19, 2016, after several email and Skype exchanges with the Russian MFA Connection, defendant PAPADOPOULOS emailed the High Ranking Campaign Official, with the subject line "New message from Russia": "The Russian ministry of foreign affairs messaged and said that if Mr. Trump is unable to make it to Russia, if a campaign rep (me or someone else) can make it for meetings? I am willing to make the trip off the record if it's in the interest of Mr. Trump and the campaign to meet specific people."

b. After several weeks of further communications regarding a potential "off the record" meeting with Russian officials, on or about August 15, 2016, the Campaign Supervisor told defendant PAPADOPOULOS that "I would encourage you" and another foreign policy advisor to the Campaign to "make the trip[], if it is feasible."

c. The trip proposed by defendant PAPADOPOULOS did not take place.

So, we have a few months of Papadopolous trying to set this up, seemingly with lukewarm responses from the campaign... We have Donald Trump Jr. meeting the Russian lawyer; perhaps this was an opportunity for the Russians to prove they had dirt and were worth conspiring with. After this meeting, Papadopolous begins getting more of a green light from campaign superiors.

Now, who made a trip to Russia between June 9 and the election? Well, Carter Page did in July, we know that much.

Missing from this is that Papadopoulos was (allegedly) told in April 2016 that the Russians had Hillary's e-mails. That is long before Wikileaks released anything. IIRC the main Wikileaks dumps happened three times: the first one was around convention time; The 2nd was right after the Access Hollywood tapes dropped; and the third right before Election Day.

Is there anything other than collusion that explains the timing of those releases? Or is it plausible that Assange, ever the champion of freedom of information, just randomly chose those times to dump them?

10-30-2017 , 11:57 AM

#65158

Victor

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Quote:

Originally Posted by SuperUberBob

Couldn't Manafort go to Russia and hide there? AFAIK, they don't have an extradition treaty with the U.S.

lol pretty sure russia is the last place he would want to be

10-30-2017 , 11:58 AM

#65159

DVaut1

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Quote:

Originally Posted by SuperUberBob

I'm pretty pessimistic about this thing taking Trump down. I guess some people can be hit with state charges but he should be able to issue preemptive pardons to anybody charged of a federal crime. From there, we have to put our faith in the hands of the GOP that they will see what's happening and move to impeach him. But we all know that the GOP has no spine and won't do it because they care more about their position than the country and its people. Bunch of scumbags.

Hard to keep up with the news, etc. among other things today. So I haven't read all the takes nor any good legal analysis.

But the combination of the news Mueller got Papadopoulos to roll AND the story here has the broad outlines of collusion: Trump campaign did quid pro quo for the emails.

Also, minor related signal: these ****ing idiots seem so brazenly stupid, clearly documenting their crimes in email that you have to imagine they wrote down a bunch of other criminal **** they were up to.

Obviously Trump won't be impeached this afternoon but the fact the Papadopoulos indictment wasn't very well known suggests Mueller isn't leaking that much, and the contents of the indictments suggest broadly stupid people were behind it, which is also suggestive they didn't cover up other potential crimes well.

My 2 cents after 10 minutes of getting caught up and trying to think through this probabilistically about what the future holds. So I think you can increase the chances this goes figuratively nuclear because perhaps Mueller has other, unleaked shoes to drop AND the Trump campaign seemed as cartoonishly inept at the coverup as you might have expected.

10-30-2017 , 12:01 PM

#65160

+rep_lol

banned

Join Date: Sep 2013 Posts: 14,900

Mother****er, is you taking notes on a criminal ****ing conspiracy??!!

It really is amazing how stupid all these dudes appear to be

10-30-2017 , 12:02 PM

#65161

Namath12

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Victor

lol pretty sure russia is the last place he would want to be

Some have said the Ecuadoran embassies' accommodations rival the finest airbnb's that the Bay Area has to offer, maybe he can try one of those.

10-30-2017 , 12:04 PM

#65162

SuperUberBob

Not interesting enough

Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 48,217

Quote:

Originally Posted by +rep_lol

No for real tho, stfu with ur neverending debbie downer routine

I'm being practical about this. No need to count chickens before they hatch.

Time and time again, **** happened to Trump and we thought it would be the end of him. Time and time again, he survived.

In all of the business ****ups in the past, he had the ability to shift the burden onto others and come off basically scot-free.

Obviously, this is a very different situation and it is definitely possible that the end of Trump is finally here. However, I am not jumping to conclusions for fear of being massively disappointed with the outcome of all this. Curious to hear what the guys at PSA have to say about this on today's episode.

10-30-2017 , 12:05 PM

#65163

FlyWf

It's the other way

Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 58,097

I love that the Trumpkin first line of defense is that Donald Trump's first campaign manager being indicted for a decade long string of financial crimes is that this is good for Trump, the guy was a known ongoing criminal WAY BEFORE Trump hired him.

The best people.

10-30-2017 , 12:06 PM

#65164

FlyWf

It's the other way

Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 58,097

Manafort absolutely gets murdered if he goes to Russia, he knows way too much about what Putin has been up to in Ukraine

10-30-2017 , 12:06 PM

#65165

+rep_lol

banned

Join Date: Sep 2013 Posts: 14,900

Quote:

Originally Posted by SuperUberBob

Youre not being practical, youre being overly pessimistic because reasons. From the contents of the indictments we can safely bet that the campaign was certainly colluding w russian govt and that they were extremely sloppy about it. Trump jr and sessions are implicated. There is already at least one cooperating witness and this is just the tip of the iceberg

10-30-2017 , 12:06 PM

#65166

DVaut1

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Quote:

Originally Posted by SuperUberBob

I think binary takes like 'it's the end or nothing' aren't helpful. See microbet's post on this.

It is probably not:

1) the END of Trump, whatever that means. Certainly not today.
2) also not nothing

The indictment says they just got Papadopoulos to flip. Manafort is now looking at a prison sentence.

Seems like today's news is pretty bad for Trump. It's not the end but the Papadopoulos thing seems like, pretty significant.

10-30-2017 , 12:08 PM

#65167

Namath12

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Quote:

Originally Posted by AllTheCheese

re: zikzak doomsaying.

The jury is still out on whether we deserve it. If Gillespie wins in Virginia, then yeah, we deserve it.

Some hopeful news on that front

10-30-2017 , 12:08 PM

#65168

+rep_lol

banned

Join Date: Sep 2013 Posts: 14,900

This is undeniably a huge and game changing development. Criminal charges have been filed brah

Nobody expects trump to be impeached or resign from office today but at the very least this is extremely good news as it relates to 2018 midterms

10-30-2017 , 12:09 PM

#65169

DVaut1

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Quote:

Originally Posted by FlyWf

EVENTUALLY they are going to settle on Trump is so stupid and doesn't pay attention to anything that while seemingly his entire campaign was colluding with Russia, Trump remains blameless because he's too dumb to understand what anyone around him was doing. In fact I'm sure plenty of Trumpkins have ham-handed said basically just this.

Trump is getting the assist by also, apparently, not knowing how to use email which appears to his campaign staff's chosen medium to plot and document their crimes, incredibly enough.

10-30-2017 , 12:09 PM

#65170

Namath12

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Manhattan DA is also investigating Manafort

10-30-2017 , 12:11 PM

#65171

FlyWf

It's the other way

Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 58,097

I guarantee when the time comes Trump's lawyers will argue he's not mentally competent to stand trial.

10-30-2017 , 12:11 PM

#65172

prana

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So did Trump have any idea about the Papadopoulos news before today?

10-30-2017 , 12:14 PM

#65173

Victor

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Quote:

Originally Posted by cuserounder

I've now read the entire document... I'm copy and pasting what I posted on Facebook, with minor changes, so it's maybe a little dumbed down for a FB audience. So, at least awval might understand it. But it sure looks to me like Mueller can already prove that the campaign colluded with Russia, it's just a matter of how much and who all was involved.

First, Mueller lays out charges that Papadopolous lied to the FBI. Then, you see that he lied about collusion between the campaign and Russia. At this point is when I realized that Mueller can PROVE collusion. If he's charging them with lying about collusion, he can prove the collusion took place.

He then proceeds to lay out a timeline of Papadopolous, as a Trump campaign official, regularly communicating with Russian officials and representatives. He attempts to set up a Trump/Putin meeting, and at one point gets approval himself from a campaign superior to travel to Russia for a meeting - this, however, does not happen.

We learn that, the day after an interview with the FBI, Papadopolous deleted the Facebook account he had maintained for 12 years that had communications with Russia on it. He then opened a new account. He later switched cell phone numbers. So, he's not the world's brightest conspirator.

We go on to learn that he was arrested on July 27, and has been cooperating since. He has entered a guilty plea, and confirmed Mueller's statement of the offense.

this part?

10-30-2017 , 12:19 PM

#65174

microbet

Solar Powered

Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 56,713

Quote:

Originally Posted by DVaut1

As far as at least half the country was concerned Reagan had no idea that his administration sold arms to Iran (a way bigger US enemy at the time) and used the money to finance a war in Nicaragua where military aid from the US was specifically barred by US law.

OTOH, Reagan was a pretty nice guy and people actually liked him. Trump is a ****ing ahole and as much as he satisfies the id of a Trumpkin, no one in this world except perhaps his immediate family has any genuine love for him or loyalty to him. Nixon had the same thing going, was similarly unlikable and was eventually persona non grata even amongst most deplorables.

10-30-2017 , 12:19 PM

#65175

Namath12

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Oh lordy if there are tapes

Quote:

Daniel Dale‏ Verified account
@ddale8

Papadopoulos is described as "proactive cooperator." Former prosecutor tells me that sometimes means "wore a wire."

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