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Old 10-05-2017, 01:09 PM   #60901
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re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump (aka David Dennison)

You do not have to believe that Tillerson was an incompetent CEO of Exxon to believe that he is an incompetent Secretary of State.

One of the problems in this country is that we tend to fetishize highly successful people and assume that they are competent at everything.

That's one of the reasons we ended up with a billionaire real estate guy who knows nothing about gov't as President, a neurosurgeon as the head of HUD, and an oil executive as Secretary of State.
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Old 10-05-2017, 01:10 PM   #60902
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re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump (aka David Dennison)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Clovis8 View Post
Why is everyone acting like his goal isn't to massively downsize the state department? This is exactly his goal.

These people want tiny government and no foreign intervention.

His not hiring people is not a result of poor management. It's a policy decision. A ****ty one but a purposeful one.
This too. Tillerson has been pretty transparent that his goal is to gut the state department. That's a ****ed up goal, but kudos for achieving your goal, I guess.
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Old 10-05-2017, 01:15 PM   #60903
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re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump (aka David Dennison)

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Originally Posted by Bdidd View Post
There is a non zero chance that this whole Trump/Tillerson feud is a work. It would be pretty convenient to make it look like Tillerson is standing up to Trump to gain some cred from the left whilst simultaneously destroying the state department.
if the story was that tillerson called trump a wild man capable of anything and not afraid of nuclear war, that could be a work. labeling trump a moron is objectively verifiably true, practically all diplomats in america and abroad regularly espouse that exact opinion
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Old 10-05-2017, 01:20 PM   #60904
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re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump (aka David Dennison)

Didn't Tillerson call him a moron because Trump tried to rationalize how many troops we should have in Afghanistan with his experience from constructing a building and how many people he needed for that?
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Old 10-05-2017, 01:26 PM   #60905
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re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump (aka David Dennison)

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Originally Posted by OneEyedPoker View Post
Didn't Tillerson call him a moron because Trump tried to rationalize how many troops we should have in Afghanistan with his experience from constructing a building and how many people he needed for that?
http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer...p-a-moron.html
Trump told his advisers that the restaurant, Manhattan’s elite ‘21’ Club, had shut its doors for a year and hired an expensive consultant to craft a plan for a renovation. After a year, Trump said, the consultant’s only suggestion was that the restaurant needed a bigger kitchen.
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Old 10-05-2017, 01:40 PM   #60906
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Spade re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump (aka David Dennison)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rococo View Post
You do not have to believe that Tillerson was an incompetent CEO of Exxon to believe that he is an incompetent Secretary of State.

One of the problems in this country is that we tend to fetishize highly successful people and assume that they are competent at everything.

That's one of the reasons we ended up with a billionaire real estate guy who knows nothing about gov't as President, a neurosurgeon as the head of HUD, and an oil executive as Secretary of State.
No one in this thread is fetishizing CEOs.
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Old 10-05-2017, 01:40 PM   #60907
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re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump (aka David Dennison)

Imagine the silence falling round the table as the orange one finished what was surely a long, rambling and confusingly pointless anecdote. The awkward looks as Trump smiled to himself obliviously, and then whichever poor sap's turn it was had to come in with "Well, anyway, as we said..".

I wish I still didn't find this stuff funny.
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Old 10-05-2017, 01:58 PM   #60908
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re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump (aka David Dennison)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ScreaminAsian View Post
http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer...p-a-moron.html
Trump told his advisers that the restaurant, Manhattan’s elite ‘21’ Club, had shut its doors for a year and hired an expensive consultant to craft a plan for a renovation. After a year, Trump said, the consultant’s only suggestion was that the restaurant needed a bigger kitchen.
The headline here is pretty dishonest. It says in the article the "reason for Tillerson’s insult isn’t clear." In fact, I doubt that's why he called Trump a moron. Trump is actually making a decent point with that anecdote, especially for him, to get more input from rank and file forces on the ground, rather than relying exclusively on the word of the elite generals.

I heard a much more plausible theory, at least on the face, that Tillerson called Trump a moron over his unhinged speech to the Boy Scouts. Remember Tillerson was an scout, and headed the Boy Scouts of America for many years before taking on his Secretariship.
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Old 10-05-2017, 02:53 PM   #60909
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re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump (aka David Dennison)

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Old 10-05-2017, 03:21 PM   #60910
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re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump (aka David Dennison)

Two days ago, Mattis said literally the exact opposite thing.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/10/03/politi...ity/index.html
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Old 10-05-2017, 03:52 PM   #60911
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re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump (aka David Dennison)

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Originally Posted by eyebooger View Post
Two days ago, Mattis said literally the exact opposite thing.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/10/03/politi...ity/index.html
when you remember that Trump knows more than the generals, it makes a lot more sense
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Old 10-05-2017, 04:00 PM   #60912
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re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump (aka David Dennison)

Sen. Bob Corker (R-TN) being much more honest now that he's decided not to run in 2018

From an interview:

Quote:
I think Secretary Tillerson, [Defense] Secretary [Jim] Mattis and [White House] Chief of Staff [John] Kelly are those people that help separate our country from chaos, and I support them very much. And I don't know what he may have said after the briefing. I watch from — I mean, look, I see what's happening here. I deal with people throughout the administration, and [it] from my perspective is an incredibly frustrating place where, as I watch, okay — and I can watch very closely on many occasions — I mean, you know, he ends up not being supported in the way that I would hope a secretary of state would be supported. And that’s just from my vantage point. But I've never — you know, I have no knowledge of the comments or anything else. I think he's in a very trying situation, trying to solve many of the world's problems a lot of times without the kind of support and help that I'd like to see him have.
Quote:
Q: When you say that Tillerson, Mattis and Kelly are separating this country from chaos, do you mean from the president’s chaos?

CORKER: Well, it’s just they act in a very — they work very well together to make sure that the policies we put forth around the world are sound and coherent. There are other people within the administration, in my belief, that don’t. Okay?
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Old 10-05-2017, 04:03 PM   #60913
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re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump (aka David Dennison)

Quote:
Originally Posted by bobman0330 View Post
So this is the MMT thing where trivia about the workings of the financial system are repeated with great seriousness in the hopes of tricking people into thinking they're deeply meaningful. The Fed buys and sells government debt to manage interest rates because that's it's job. The Treasury, on the other hand, sells huge amounts of Treasury securities in weekly auctions *to pay for things* because Treasury's job is to finance the American government, which it does by collecting taxes and selling government debt.
Deficit spending puts downward pressure on interest rates.
Treasury securities, as they relate to deficit spending, are sold in order to maintain a positive overnight lending rate.

It is not strictly to finance the government because the Treasury is able to finance itself in multiple other ways e.g.:
Modern Money Theory and Interrelations between the Treasury and the Central Bank
Quote:
Under the current budgetary procedures, the Treasury must issue securities to economic units other than the Federal Reserve to be able to fund a deficit (provided there are not enough funds in the TGA and TT&Ls). The Treasury has at least four ways to bypass this budgetary procedure. The first one is to issue its own monetary instrument. The second way is to allow banks to buy treasuries by crediting TT&Ls. The third way is to allow the Federal Reserve to provide a direct emergency or regular credit line to the Treasury. The fourth way is to have the Federal Reserve indirectly provide funding to the Treasury through banks. The Treasury uses, or has used, all these different techniques.
more on the same subject:
Can Taxes and Bonds Finance Government Spending?
Deficit spending 101 – Part 3

Quote:
This is another big snoozer, like all accounting. It proves nothing. There's no way to demonstrate, purely from rearranging equations, that the offset to net government saving doesn't come in the form of reduced foreign holdings. Indeed, given that other countries have vast holdings of US government debt, that's a natural place for redemptions to come from.
The classic idea of the relationship between the deficit and exports is that as the deficit rises, money that non-residents would have used for imports is instead used to buy debt instruments. There is probably some truth to this, but very unrealistic imo to expect a 1:1 correlation at all times between a marginal increase in the deficit and change in foreign holdings; if I’m right, excess government spending will tend to be soaked up in part by the private sector:

source

Quote:
Right, and this is dumb. No one holds dollars to pay their taxes. (Your taxes are mostly paid by your employer. Your employer is a fairly sophisticated business who could dollars or Swiss francs or yuan or whatever on the spot market to meet payroll tax obligations.) People hold dollars to buy stuff or as a store of value. Do tax obligations contribute to the value of the dollar? Likely so, but its use to access the USD payment system to process transactions is hugely important too. The proof is cryptocurrencies, which have no tax or inherent value, but still have market value due to their exchange function.
'The dollar has value because you can buy things with it' etc. begs the question.

If the US government switched to using bitcoin, and accepted bitcoin for taxes, the value of the dollar would drop precipitously. People do use the dollar to buy things, and to store value, but the reason a dollar is viewed as something more than just a piece of paper is fundamentally due to the government using and demanding it.
The Real Reason the U.S. Dollar Has Value.
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Old 10-05-2017, 04:06 PM   #60914
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re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump (aka David Dennison)

why start one war when you can start two wars?

He's probably just undoing the iran deal simply because obama did it and everything obama did I must do the opposite. As a bonus, he gets to setup a pretense for war with iran. (going to war, controlling oil AND killing a bunch of people that believe in islam, the ultimate republican wet dream)
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Old 10-05-2017, 04:08 PM   #60915
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re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump (aka David Dennison)

Quote:
Originally Posted by goofyballer View Post
I really don't want to see what chaos is if we aren't in it yet...
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Old 10-05-2017, 04:08 PM   #60916
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re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump (aka David Dennison)



https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/...tnyt&smtyp=cur
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Old 10-05-2017, 04:11 PM   #60917
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re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump (aka David Dennison)

Lol Wyoming

How do they even get to be a state?
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Old 10-05-2017, 04:24 PM   #60918
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re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump (aka David Dennison)

Quote:
Originally Posted by +rep_lol View Post
so like, really, what are you even arguing about here?
With you? Probably nothing.

I feel like Noodle's view is essentially being CEO of Exxon has zero correlation to competency generally or as a leader, any random would be just as good as any CEO, etc.

More specifically I think he's saying Tillerson is a bumbling moron in a general sense which I think is likely inaccurate.

If he is not saying these things then I am arguing with myself. So far he hasn't corrected my interpretation of his view.

Note: I grunched this so I may be pwning myself.
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Old 10-05-2017, 05:31 PM   #60919
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re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump (aka David Dennison)

Trump's action on Iran really is just tossing a grenade into the room for no reason at all. I don't think there's any way the other signatories to the deal (UK, France, China, Russia, Germany) will come out in proper support of his action, and apart from the UK I can't really see any of them even pushing for re-negotiation - which is supposedly the consequence of not re-certifying it - to try and give the move slight legitimacy. Obviously Trump isn't up for that either, and Iran certainly isn't, so it would be a pointless gesture anyway.

If congress doesn't reimpose sanctions then I can't see why Iran would care too much. I'm sure their rhetoric would be spicy, but enough people in power there seem to believe it's a worthwhile deal, so they can probably let it limp along. If congress does reimpose sanctions, I haven't a clue. Again presumably none of the other countries would (with the UK wildcard if May is still bumbling about), but I imagine even just the US doing it would be enough to seriously piss off the Iranians.

The best plan you can puzzle out is to further alienate the US from countries you would traditionally think of as its allies, and destablise the current Iranian regime towards more hardline people who hate the deal simply because it's with the US and the West. That all seems to help the insane "more war, less talk" foreign policy that occasionally seems might be the Trump regime's bag, but who can say. I suspect even that is probably too much thought to suppose is behind it. That will all probably happen as a result though, at the very least.
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Old 10-05-2017, 05:37 PM   #60920
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re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump (aka David Dennison)

I think there's too little information regarding the transferability of CEO skills as SOS. I could think of a number of reasons why that would be desirable. I can think of just as many why it could be a negative [e.g., bad habits gained trying to maximize revenue, set in ways based on past "success," thinks he knows more than he does, hard to learn new tricks, used to "commanding" when diplomacy often requires understanding nuance, etc.]

One super duper red flag for me is Tillerson's "reform" effort. The Dept. of State is a 230-year-old institution that conducts diplomacy for the most powerful nation in the world. There are probably reasons most things are set up and done the way they are. Sure, you can come in and reorganize and shake things up, but I think you would want to understand 1) how the Dept. is actually organized and 2) how specific forms of reorganization could promote the goals of the Dept.

From what I can tell, Tillerson started reorganization on day 1, before he knew anything. That says to me that he is not overly concerned about understanding the consequences of his actions before engaging in them. Something like Trump, just without the rank stupidity.
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Old 10-05-2017, 05:45 PM   #60921
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re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump (aka David Dennison)

The best interpretation of this Iran thing--understanding that the best interpretation is generally wrong with all things Trump--is that Congress, as usual **** the bed by requiring certification every 3 months to tweak HRC for political gain, and they will do away with that requirement so Trump doesn't appear to be the cuck that he is by recertifying every 3 months. This assumes that Congress acts like an adult, which is not even money. If they don't recertify, then the other countries will stay in and everything will be the same, except the US will look like its word cannot be trusted. Similar to leaving the Paris climate accord, all the downside with none of the upside.

As far as this and NK diplomacy being a "strategy" by Trump. I think, in his mind, it probably is. However, he's not negotiating over marble countertops. You don't need to bluff. When you are the most powerful nation in the world, it's important that your statements are true, your actions are predictable, and your word is good.

Trump is used to being a bottom feeding conman, and that's how he approaches everything. He has no understanding of how to act when you have real power.
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Old 10-05-2017, 05:52 PM   #60922
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re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump (aka David Dennison)

John Kelly's personal cell phone was compromised, White House believes
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Old 10-05-2017, 05:55 PM   #60923
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re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump (aka David Dennison)

hadnt been working for months, finally decided to have it checked out

the best people
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Old 10-05-2017, 06:03 PM   #60924
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re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump (aka David Dennison)

https://www.buzzfeed.com/josephberns...bW5#.rcV0BV4xy

Amazing Buzzfeed article on how Breitbart, Bannon and Milo courted white nationalists.

Quote:
It’s a relationship illustrated most starkly by a previously unreleased April 2016 video in which Yiannopoulos sings “America the Beautiful” in a Dallas karaoke bar as admirers, including the white nationalist Richard Spencer, raise their arms in Nazi salutes.
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Old 10-05-2017, 06:28 PM   #60925
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re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump (aka David Dennison)

do they still do espionage anymore? i gotta figure anyone can get any information they want just by paying trump's family for it
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