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Old 01-10-2019, 02:46 PM   #2451
Trolly McTrollson
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re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

The difficulty is that there’s probably a significant percentage of xenophobic Dems who would be okay with a wall, which forces Dems to be halfassed about it. Fortunately Trump has played his hand terribly and lost whatever support he might have got from them.
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Old 01-10-2019, 02:47 PM   #2452
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re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

Illegal immigration was a lot higher in the past, and the case for a wall made a lot more sense. These days, deficits are sky high, illegal immigration is down, and there's no case to spend $5 billion on Donald Trump's vanity project.
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Old 01-10-2019, 02:48 PM   #2453
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re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

Quote:
Originally Posted by wheatrich View Post
I'm not forgetting anything, the goal is to win elections, and insisting on OPEN BORDERS like this thread does, isn't helpful to that goal.
This is a very fair point. "Open borders" have been made into scary words even though they describe, like, the way borders exist throughout most of the world and have existed here for most of our existence. The problem is that Democrats then trip over themselves to call for tighter border security, which the general public think means the same thing as building a wall/fence/whatever.

Democrats happen to be on the right side of this issue (pretty standard) and happen to absolutely, positively SUCK at messaging on this issue (totally standard).

The proper response IMO when being hit for wanting open borders in a debate/interview/whatever is something like:

Literally nobody serious in politics in America is for open borders, but anybody serious about the future prosperity of this country is for open ports of entry with good security screening.

That means expanding legal immigration, expanding temporary work visas, and streamlining the process so that we can process applications for entry more efficiently. This gives immigrants every reason in the world to come in through a port of entry, and the vast majority of them will do so.

The facts are pretty simple: immigrants contribute greatly to our economy, we need workers right now, and it's the right thing to do. It makes our country richer economically and culturally... and when we give them every reason to come in legally and work legally, guess what? That means more tax revenue as well! It's a win-win, and it's morally the right thing to do.

Now what we really need to be worrying about keeping out at the border is drugs, not people. A wall doesn't do anything about that, but using technology to screen at ports of entry does.

So our proposal is simple: expand legal immigration, expand temporary work visas, process everything efficiently and use technology to screen for drugs at ports of entry. That is cheaper than a wall, it will make America richer and it provides opportunities to our neighbors who are looking for a chance at their American dream.

And by the way, this isn't a liberal or conservative idea. Ronald Reagan spoke of the same thing... It's an American idea.


Quote:
Originally Posted by lozen View Post
So watching CNBC they showed the picture of the wall being cut and that it could be done with a simple home saw. A little dramatic

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/imm...-sawed-n956856
Dems should build like 30-40 feet of steel-slat wall, and then make a viral video of people tossing stuff over it, passing stuff through it, squeezing through in between the slats, climbing it with ladders, and cutting through it. End it with something really flashy/funny, like an Evel Knievel style motorcycle jump or something.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Namath12 View Post
The actual Rubio quote which I've just now bothered to google



https://www.cnbc.com/2019/01/09/sen-...ery-slope.html
You know, this may be one of the great silver linings of this presidency. The fact that he's even flirted with calling a national emergency over this bull**** should be the only kick in the ass the Democrats need to actually do it on climate change after winning in 2020 if the GOP won't work with them to get stuff done. Like, 99% of scientists say we're utterly ****ed in four years if we don't take strong action now. If that's not a national emergency, what is?

Quote:
Originally Posted by metsandfinsfan View Post
Lol at believing there is really a pee tape
I'm going to warn you right off the bat, this is really going to come as a shock to you, but it's a basic truth. Nothing in the dossier has proven patently false. Literally like nothing. Plenty of things have been proven true and even more looks very likely to be true circumstantially. So while we may never know if there is a pee tape, so far the surrounding body of work makes it more likely that it exists than that it doesn't.

But, most of all, it's not even the most important thing in the dossier - not even close. The proposed sale/gift of 19% of Rosneft is what's important.
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Old 01-10-2019, 02:50 PM   #2454
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re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

I'd say the Dems are being more recalcitrant than intransigent
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Old 01-10-2019, 03:07 PM   #2455
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re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

It's not that hard to say you're for border security, including more/stronger barriers where it makes sense, but not for a 35'+ impenetrable wall across the Southern border for $25-$50 billion + $150-$750 million in annual maintenance. Especially with no plan, no studies, no due diligence.

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Old 01-10-2019, 03:14 PM   #2456
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re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

There is absolutely no way a real wall gets built for even $50 billion. After all the property rights, environmental issues, and every contractor in the Republican orbit with their hands in the cookie jar - it would basically drag on for decades and never stop draining 10s of $billions/year.
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Old 01-10-2019, 03:21 PM   #2457
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re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

"So our proposal is simple: expand legal immigration, expand temporary work visas, process everything efficiently and use technology to screen for drugs at ports of entry. That is cheaper than a wall, it will make America richer and it provides opportunities to our neighbors who are looking for a chance at their American dream."



And Over Extended Visas Round up them 92,000 Iceback's and 42,000 Mexicans and create a policy if you over extend your visa you cant return for 2 years
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Old 01-10-2019, 03:22 PM   #2458
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re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

Trumpkins don't need to look up intransigence. They don't know what it means, but they just know they agree with every single word coming out of Trump's disgusting face.

Trump obviously has no clue what it means either.
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Old 01-10-2019, 03:26 PM   #2459
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re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

Quote:
Originally Posted by SenorKeeed View Post
Well his position is incoherent. He's really against giving money for a wall, fence or barrier simply because Trump is so strongly for it and giving him money would be a win for Trump. It's obviously pretty hard to reconcile past support for a barrier/fence/whatever with the current Democratic party line of 5 billion dollars for a wall is immoral.
It's obviously extremely easy to reconcile past support for strategically placed fencing near population centers and ports of entry with a current refusal to consider a 2000-mile continuous concrete barrier.

TIL in 2007 Kay Bailey Hutchison got an amendment to give DHS discretion over even the limited fencing authorized by the original law:
Quote:
nothing in this paragraph shall require the Secretary of Homeland Security to install fencing, physical barriers, roads, lighting, cameras, and sensors in a particular location along an international border of the United States, if the Secretary determines that the use or placement of such resources is not the most appropriate means to achieve and maintain operational control over the international border at such location.
Maybe some intrepid young journalist should should ask Republican Senators how they reconcile their past support for this amendment with their current support for WALL.
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Old 01-10-2019, 03:37 PM   #2460
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MonsterJMcgee View Post
intransigence!!
Scavino must have watched You're The Worst last night.

Fitting title for this President as well.
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Old 01-10-2019, 03:42 PM   #2461
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re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

LOL at Lol at believing there is really a pee tape
 
Old 01-10-2019, 03:47 PM   #2462
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re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

Quote:
Originally Posted by kerowo View Post
Cite?
He voted for bills that approved fencing in 2006 2009 and 2013–up to 700 miles of it. He also gave many speeches about how important it is to stop illegal immigration being the reason. Maybe you could argue that the new wall funding is for other parts that he doesn’t think would be as effective but I think it’s pretty clear he’s changed his mind for political reasons—the base doesn’t want a wall, and under no circumstances can they give Trump a win. This is a less extreme version of what the Republicans did to Obama.

Politically Schumer can’t give in to Trump. And Trump can’t cave now he’s backed into a corner. The only way i see this ending is by Trump declaring the emergency and watching how the courts respond.

Last edited by alazo1985; 01-10-2019 at 03:56 PM.
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Old 01-10-2019, 03:54 PM   #2463
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re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

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Old 01-10-2019, 04:01 PM   #2464
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re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

I believe that he really had to ask
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Old 01-10-2019, 04:06 PM   #2465
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re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

Quote:
Originally Posted by alazo1985 View Post
He voted for bills that approved fencing in 2006 2009 and 2013–up to 700 miles of it.
Didn't that 2013 bill also involve the inclusion of DREAM and a pathway to citizenship for all undocumented peoples living in the US prior to 2012?
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Old 01-10-2019, 04:06 PM   #2466
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re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

Mayans had plenty of walls but they never had the wheel.
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Old 01-10-2019, 04:09 PM   #2467
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re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

 
Old 01-10-2019, 04:10 PM   #2468
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re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

Quote:
Originally Posted by suzzer99 View Post
There is absolutely no way a real wall gets built for even $50 billion. After all the property rights, environmental issues, and every contractor in the Republican orbit with their hands in the cookie jar - it would basically drag on for decades and never stop draining 10s of $billions/year.
Trump's decades long history of fraud and mismanagement within his own companies should be front and center in the messaging here.

The American people are not going to allow a racist epithet monumentalized at our southern border, nor will they trust the man who promised that Mexico would pay for it to not mismanage tax-payer funds and essentially grift the actual development along with his cronies.
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Old 01-10-2019, 04:11 PM   #2469
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re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

Yeah, walls predate wheels for sure. Wall of Jericho is like 8000 BC. The oldest estimate for the wheel is 4500BC.
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Old 01-10-2019, 04:15 PM   #2470
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re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

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Old 01-10-2019, 04:27 PM   #2471
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re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

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Originally Posted by WillieWin? View Post
Didn't that 2013 bill also involve the inclusion of DREAM and a pathway to citizenship for all undocumented peoples living in the US prior to 2012?
They may well have—regardless, Schumer has gone on record vocally supporting the idea of physical border. He is allowed to feel differently now for political reasons, but so far Democrats have put themselves into a corner by painting something they supported in a measured, nuanced way in the past as a wholly evil thing that makes Trump evil for supporting. Their measured, thoughtful, and nuanced position has been all but abandoned for political reasons.

I don’t necessarily think a border fence is an evil, racist thing—I just think it’s mostly a waste of money (albeit most of the people clamoring for one are doing so for racist reasons). What benefits it could bring is not worth invoking eminent domain, and most areas have natural barriers; where we could add border fencing it would not do much unless we also added more surveillance as well, as it’s too easy to defeat a wall otherwise—and thus it begs the question why we couldn’t just add the tech and forget the wall. And given that most drugs come through points of entry, and we have a net negative flow of illegal immigration, and the economic effects of illegal immigration are likely a wash or low cost for the first generation and a great boon for 2nd generation—it’s just not a priority. But those arguments won’t work on people that use these as post-hoc rationalizations to justify positions they support due to racism. My fear is that simply enough American voters are racist that this is a winning argument.
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Old 01-10-2019, 04:38 PM   #2472
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re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

Michael Cohen Agrees to Testify to Congress About Work for Trump
Mr. Cohen’s decision to appear before the House Oversight and Reform Committee on Feb. 7 sets the stage for a blockbuster public hearing that threatens to further damage the president’s image and could clarify the depth of his legal woes. Mr. Cohen, a consigliere to Mr. Trump when he was a real estate developer and presidential candidate as well as informally as president, was privy to the machinations of Mr. Trump’s inner circle and key moments under scrutiny by both the special counsel, Robert S. Mueller III, and federal prosecutors in New York.

He could soon share them on national television under oath.

“In furtherance of my commitment to cooperate and provide the American people with answers, I have accepted the invitation by Chairman Elijah Cummings to appear publicly on February 7,” Mr. Cohen said in a statement. “I look forward to having the privilege of being afforded a platform with which to give a full and credible account of the events which have transpired.”
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Old 01-10-2019, 04:46 PM   #2473
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re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

Is there enough popcorn in the world for that event?
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Old 01-10-2019, 04:50 PM   #2474
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re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

ooooooo public? my dick just grew
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Old 01-10-2019, 04:51 PM   #2475
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re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

Quote:
Originally Posted by ScreaminAsian View Post
Michael Cohen Agrees to Testify to Congress About Work for Trump
Mr. Cohen’s decision to appear before the House Oversight and Reform Committee on Feb. 7 sets the stage for a blockbuster public hearing that threatens to further damage the president’s image and could clarify the depth of his legal woes. Mr. Cohen, a consigliere to Mr. Trump when he was a real estate developer and presidential candidate as well as informally as president, was privy to the machinations of Mr. Trump’s inner circle and key moments under scrutiny by both the special counsel, Robert S. Mueller III, and federal prosecutors in New York.

He could soon share them on national television under oath.

“In furtherance of my commitment to cooperate and provide the American people with answers, I have accepted the invitation by Chairman Elijah Cummings to appear publicly on February 7,” Mr. Cohen said in a statement. “I look forward to having the privilege of being afforded a platform with which to give a full and credible account of the events which have transpired.”
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