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Old 01-06-2019, 12:44 PM   #1451
All-In Flynn
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re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

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Originally Posted by Clovis8 View Post
As opposed to speaking on behalf of all dreamers. We get it. You are a moron. You can bow out now.
lol
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Old 01-06-2019, 12:46 PM   #1452
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re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

some of you are just so ****ing obtuse, this **** is going to start affecting my mental health if i keep at it.

on my side: pelosi, AOC, several respected liberal posters itt

other side: suzzer, d10, dessin, wichitaDM, and now apparently allthecheese since he can't ****ing read

ya, i'm good.
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Old 01-06-2019, 12:48 PM   #1453
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re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

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Originally Posted by GermanGuy View Post
MrWookie already laid out the only possible strategy for Democrats in post #938:
I guess I should have added to that post that the third way, that nothing gets agreement from anyone, is also a win for the Dems, because **** Trump and **** his ****ing wall, but to not have a price for which we'd trade the wall is definitely foolish. That price should be quite high, high to the point that Trump would be unlikely to accept it, but we shouldn't deny ourselves a path to victory.
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Old 01-06-2019, 12:48 PM   #1454
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re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

Is he still doing this for a third day
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Old 01-06-2019, 12:49 PM   #1455
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re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

.
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Old 01-06-2019, 12:52 PM   #1456
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re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

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you know this discussion about hypothetical wall/m4a/daca negotiations started and is being done IN THE CONTEXT OF A GOVT SHUTDOWN AS A MEANS OF ENDING IT, right?

jfc, you can't just completely remove the main component of this whole argument
The shutdown and Trump's pronouncements around it have created leverage FOR THE DEMOCRATS. AOC's comment about hostage-taking is correct because currently they're offering nothing in exchange for the 5B except ending the shutdown. What everyone is talking about in this derail is the scenario where they realize the bomb is strapped to them too, and now offer Democrats more than what they would have given in a non-shutdown scenario, because they're trying to escape a political mess they created for themselvds.
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Old 01-06-2019, 12:54 PM   #1457
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re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

Age: 26
Location: Turth Or Consequences, NV
Interests: Vaguely-Defined Political Symbolism
Ethnicity: Dreamer
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Old 01-06-2019, 01:01 PM   #1458
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re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

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Originally Posted by AllTheCheese View Post
The shutdown and Trump's pronouncements around it have created leverage FOR THE DEMOCRATS. AOC's comment about hostage-taking is correct because currently they're offering nothing in exchange for the 5B except ending the shutdown. What everyone is talking about in this derail is the scenario where they realize the bomb is strapped to them too, and now offer Democrats more than what they would have given in a non-shutdown scenario, because they're trying to escape a political mess they created for themselvds.
Would you trade the dreamers for a law that converted all gay marriages to civil unions?
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Old 01-06-2019, 01:05 PM   #1459
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re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

-rep still refuses to acknowledge that literally zero people expect a funding bill to include wall funding and whatever priorities Democrats want in exchange, if for no other reason than it would take weeks to iron out the details. Also literally zero people are advocating for a funding bill that includes only the wall with a promise to pass Democrat legislation later. AOC is not on your side because you're either continuing to mischaracterize the other side's argument or failing to understand the legislative process, neither of which I would expect her to have any respect for. In fact her suggestion that Republicans attempt to get a wall through the normal legislative process aligns much more with the people who are suggesting it could be negotiable for the right terms. But good try attempting to claim her tweet as vindication and trying to /discussion the argument now that everyone's figuring out you're an idiot.
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Old 01-06-2019, 01:07 PM   #1460
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re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

Can someone just get rep a Snickers.
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Old 01-06-2019, 01:09 PM   #1461
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re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

This article shows what happens if Trump declares a national emergency. It's insane.

The moment the president declares a “national emergency”—a decision that is entirely within his discretion—more than 100 special provisions become available to him. While many of these tee up reasonable responses to genuine emergencies, some appear dangerously suited to a leader bent on amassing or retaining power.


He could determine that any American inside the U.S. who offers material support to the asylum seekers—or, for that matter, to undocumented immigrants inside the United States—poses “an unusual and extraordinary threat” to national security, and authorize the Treasury Department to take action against them.


He could characterize sanctuary cities—cities that refuse to provide assistance to immigration-enforcement officials—as “conspiracies” against federal authorities, and order the military to enforce immigration laws in those places.

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine...powers/576418/
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Old 01-06-2019, 01:18 PM   #1462
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re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

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Would you trade the dreamers for a law that converted all gay marriages to civil unions?
Dude, stop with the AIDS hypotheticals. The hypothetical we're talking about (wall funding for Dreamers) is something that can actually happen. This can't happen. Plus, marriage is a legal status, not merely symbolic. It confers more material benefits than civil union. So it's not even close to analogous to what we're talking about, which is a wall that has no material effect on Hispanic Americans.
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Old 01-06-2019, 01:25 PM   #1463
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re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

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Originally Posted by AllTheCheese View Post
Dude, stop with the AIDS hypotheticals. The hypothetical we're talking about (wall funding for Dreamers) is something that can actually happen. This can't happen. Plus, marriage is a legal status, not merely symbolic. It confers more material benefits than civil union. So it's not even close to analogous to what we're talking about, which is a wall that has no material effect on Hispanic Americans.
Lets assume the civil unions confer all the same benefits as marriage.

I donít think anyone advocating for the wall trade would take the deal but I donít see how it is any different.

You wouldnít take it because you know the symbolism of naming gay unions differently than heterosexual unions matters.

As I said yesterday, my point is simply this is not the ethical slam dunk you seem to think it is.
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Old 01-06-2019, 01:35 PM   #1464
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re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

Hay guise, there's a more appropriate forum for hypothetical thought experiments about how to capitulate when you have the upper hand. Take the discussion there?
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Old 01-06-2019, 01:45 PM   #1465
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re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

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Originally Posted by zikzak View Post
Hay guise, there's a more appropriate forum for hypothetical thought experiments about how to capitulate when you have the upper hand. Take the discussion there?
Is there a forum for illiterates who don't know how to use the word "capitulate" in a sentence properly?
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Old 01-06-2019, 01:46 PM   #1466
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re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

As a CDN I love this gong show you have going on

I watched Fox Chris Wallace this AM and Meet the Press
ON fox the Democratic leader of I am not sure which committee never ever replies with "Trump said Mexico will pay for it not the American Taxpayer" and when the fox host replies. Trump says it will be paid out of NAFTA 2.0 His reply would be "it hasn't passed yet once its passed than we can have that discussion"

Same goes for Meet the Press. The democrats should be pounding that message. Your Republicans will fight anyway they can and at any cost for anything. Democrats seem to be bad at delivering the message

I have never watched a State of the Union address but if Trump goes off the Tele prompter its gonna be a riot if the Govt still shutdown
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Old 01-06-2019, 01:47 PM   #1467
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re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

trolly, do you want my snickers bar?
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Old 01-06-2019, 02:06 PM   #1468
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re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

Not to step on moderator toes but technically personal attacks are against the ruked here and many of you are going back and forth pretty hard. Just thought I would mention it because I think all of you could bring it down a notch and still argue about it.
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Old 01-06-2019, 02:08 PM   #1469
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re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

As I said yesterday? God this derail sucks and you all suck.
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Old 01-06-2019, 02:15 PM   #1470
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re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

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Originally Posted by PartyGirlUK View Post
Who actually opposed dancing other than twitter user q_anon_69 or whatever? Is it a totally manufactured controversy a la Merry Christmas or am I missing a wider right wing revulsion with dancing?


Itís the start of the 16 year smear campaign. The actual issues are irrelevant.
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Old 01-06-2019, 02:18 PM   #1471
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re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

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Itís the start of the 16 year smear campaign. The actual issues are irrelevant.
So this. The right is absolutely petrified of AOC. She is smart, a great speaker, fights hard, is a social media wizard and doesnít want to placate the middle. It doesnít hurt that she is young and beautiful.

She is their worst nightmare.
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Old 01-06-2019, 02:25 PM   #1472
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re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

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Originally Posted by markksman View Post
Not to step on moderator toes but technically personal attacks are against the ruked here and many of you are going back and forth pretty hard. Just thought I would mention it because I think all of you could bring it down a notch and still argue about it.
Don't be silly, the rules are only enforced when disliked posters tell others to **** off and things of that nature.
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Old 01-06-2019, 02:31 PM   #1473
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re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

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Old 01-06-2019, 02:42 PM   #1474
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re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

I think I was the one who kicked off this AIDS battle. lol.
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Old 01-06-2019, 02:58 PM   #1475
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re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

I can’t even figure out what everyone is arguing about and what side posters are on. Maybe take it to the low content thread?
 

 
      

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