Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
 

Go Back   Two Plus Two Poker Forums > >

Notices

 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 04-18-2019, 11:34 PM   #14676
np1235711
old hand
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 1,217
Re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

Quote:
Originally Posted by wheatrich View Post
Nixon was impeached for less and it's lol nothing matters with trump despite trump acting far worse of a human being.
Study history harder......
np1235711 is offline  
Old 04-18-2019, 11:36 PM   #14677
Paul D
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Paul D's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: L.H.O.O.Q.
Posts: 14,609
Re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

Quote:
Originally Posted by np1235711 View Post
Cuse,

The Mueller Report seems to have put the "collusion with Russia" argument to bed for all but the many dead enders and drones here. Fantasies abound.... Comey and Strzok, et al are in more legal jeopardy than your President and his family.

It must suck to have to face the reality that a TV host beat one of the Ten Best Lawyers in America for the presidency..... and there ain't nuthin anyone can do about it for 2 more years.
Found keedwald's gimmick
Paul D is offline  
Old 04-18-2019, 11:44 PM   #14678
ScreaminAsian
For President
 
ScreaminAsian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: DO NOT CONGRATULATE
Posts: 33,234
Re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

Quote:
Originally Posted by np1235711 View Post
Cuse,

The Mueller Report seems to have put the "collusion with Russia" argument to bed for all but the many dead enders and drones here. Fantasies abound.... Comey and Strzok, et al are in more legal jeopardy than your President and his family.

It must suck to have to face the reality that a TV host beat one of the Ten Best Lawyers in America for the presidency..... and there ain't nuthin anyone can do about it for 2 more years.
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/18/u...sia-trump.html
The report shows contacts beyond those previously known.

For example, Petr Aven, the Russian head of Alfa-Bank, Russia’s largest commercial bank, told investigators that Mr. Putin regularly meets with about 50 Russian oligarchs at the Kremlin. In a late 2016 meeting, he said, Mr. Putin instructed him to reach out to the Trump administration about United States sanctions against Russia.

Through an intermediary, Mr. Aven reached out to a Russian-born foreign policy specialist in Washington, Dimitri Simes, who had previously met with Jared Kushner, the president’s son-in-law, hoping to arrange a meeting to discuss “a high-level communications channel between Putin and the incoming administration,” the report states. The effort was called “Project A.”

In a Dec. 22, 2016, email, the intermediary wrote Mr. Aven that “with so much intense interest in the Congress and the media over the question of cyber-hacking (and who ordered what), Project A was too explosive to discuss” at that time.

The report also leaves questions about the interactions of some Trump aides with Russians, partly because some witnesses were uncooperative.

Investigators learned, for example, that Mr. Manafort shared internal campaign polling data with Mr. Kilimnik, who prosecutors have repeatedly said is linked to Russian intelligence agencies. At Mr. Manafort’s instruction, Rick Gates, the deputy campaign chairman, repeatedly transferred data to Mr. Kilimnik, using an encrypted form of communication, beginning in spring 2016 and continuing even after Mr. Manafort was fired from the campaign in August.

The report said that Mr. Gates understood Mr. Kilimnik would give the polling data to pro-Russian Ukrainian oligarchs who had previously hired Mr. Manafort, as well as to Oleg V. Deripaska, a Russian billionaire considered so close to the Kremlin that he is sometimes referred to as “Putin’s oligarch.” Mr. Deripaska has denied he ever received the polling data.

At the Aug. 2, 2016, meeting with Mr. Kilimnik, Mr. Manafort outlined “the status of the Trump campaign and Manafort’s strategy for winning Democratic votes in Midwestern states,” the report stated. While investigators found no evidence that the polling data helped Russian operatives shape their election interference operations, the report said they could not “reliably determine Manafort’s purpose” in sharing the data. Nor could they figure out what, if anything, Mr. Kilimnik ultimately did with it.

They also questioned Mr. Manafort’s denial that he never discussed Mr. Kilimnik’s plan to effectively cede part of eastern Ukraine to Russia with Trump campaign or administration officials, saying he had lied to them about the subject previously.

...

Mr. Gates, the former campaign deputy, told prosecutors that by late summer 2016, the Trump campaign had incorporated the possible release of hacked emails into its political strategy. En route to La Guardia Airport that summer, the report stated, “Candidate Trump told Gates that more releases of damaging information would be forthcoming.”

Although that paragraph is partly redacted, other accounts suggest that Mr. Trump had learned that from Roger J. Stone Jr., a former campaign adviser who was in contact with the Russian hackers. Mr. Stone is now awaiting trial on charges of lying about his efforts to reach Julian Assange, the founder of WikiLeaks, and trying to influence the congressional testimony of a witness with ties to Mr. Assange.
ScreaminAsian is offline  
Old 04-18-2019, 11:50 PM   #14679
ScreaminAsian
For President
 
ScreaminAsian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: DO NOT CONGRATULATE
Posts: 33,234
Re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: Harm to Ongoing Matter

giving polling data to russia, getting russia's online troll farms to target close areas during the election to spam low info people. trump campaign uses the emails stolen by russian spies openly throughout the campaign.

then, trump is super soft on russia diplomatically. even goes out of his way to **** on nato, talking about defunding it and even calling it obsolete, just a whole bunch of russia-specific policy ideas that aren't coming from the republican party at all

oh and he's lying about it the whole time even after he got caught.

collusion.
ScreaminAsian is offline  
Old 04-18-2019, 11:52 PM   #14680
MrWookie
Don't Call Me Meredith
 
MrWookie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Treating my drinking problem.
Posts: 94,101
Re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

Quote:
Originally Posted by np1235711 View Post
Study history harder......
In your own words, what was the "smoking gun" for Nixon, why did it lead to his resignation, and why is this so much worse than what Mueller showed Trump did?
MrWookie is offline  
Old 04-18-2019, 11:57 PM   #14681
AllTheCheese
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
AllTheCheese's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Sad life; won't change
Posts: 11,907
Re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrWookie View Post
In your own words, what was the "smoking gun" for Nixon, why did it lead to his resignation, and why is this so much worse than what Mueller showed Trump did?
It’s just the hurr durr gotcha that Nixon wasn’t technically impeached.
AllTheCheese is offline  
Old 04-18-2019, 11:59 PM   #14682
wheatrich
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
wheatrich's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 21,246
Re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

Quote:
Originally Posted by AllTheCheese View Post
It’s just the hurr durr gotcha that Nixon wasn’t technically impeached.
Those trolls are all so f'ing dumb.
wheatrich is offline  
Old 04-19-2019, 12:00 AM   #14683
MrWookie
Don't Call Me Meredith
 
MrWookie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Treating my drinking problem.
Posts: 94,101
Re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

Quote:
Originally Posted by AllTheCheese View Post
It’s just the hurr durr gotcha that Nixon wasn’t technically impeached.
A fine student of history and supporter of Trump like him should still be able to answer these.
MrWookie is offline  
Old 04-19-2019, 12:01 AM   #14684
wheatrich
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
wheatrich's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 21,246
Re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: Harm to Ongoing Matter

Quote:
Originally Posted by ScreaminAsian View Post
giving polling data to russia, getting russia's online troll farms to target close areas during the election to spam low info people. trump campaign uses the emails stolen by russian spies openly throughout the campaign.

then, trump is super soft on russia diplomatically. even goes out of his way to **** on nato, talking about defunding it and even calling it obsolete, just a whole bunch of russia-specific policy ideas that aren't coming from the republican party at all

oh and he's lying about it the whole time even after he got caught.

collusion.
also insisted the russians didn't hack the e-mails (it could've been some fat guy), after everyone figured out the russians hacked the e-mails.

I actually disagree with cuse, nixon wasn't brought down until after they actually did impeachment investigations/hearings. There's too many low info voters out there. There were a LOT of people saying Nixon was innocent/witch hunt (same **** nothing ever changes) and casuals just thought it was all partisan bickering until they actually did something.

Also, the dems have to avoid the trap of letting the R's win on some of this **** by focusing on a carrot rather than the entire stick.

It's interesting, people out here thinking they should run on policy when I don't believe the majority of voters give a **** at all about any of that. I'd guess they're better off with "trump bad don't vote for trump". Sure, don't make that the entire focus but I don't believe in "voters really care about x" when they've shown little sign of doing any of that ever.
wheatrich is offline  
Old 04-19-2019, 12:15 AM   #14685
batair
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
batair's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: idiocracy
Posts: 16,806
Re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: Harm to Ongoing Matter

Quote:
Originally Posted by ScreaminAsian View Post
giving polling data to russia, getting russia's online troll farms to target close areas during the election to spam low info people. trump campaign uses the emails stolen by russian spies openly throughout the campaign.

then, trump is super soft on russia diplomatically. even goes out of his way to **** on nato, talking about defunding it and even calling it obsolete, just a whole bunch of russia-specific policy ideas that aren't coming from the republican party at all

oh and he's lying about it the whole time even after he got caught.

collusion.
Him pushing Brexit was always odd.
batair is offline  
Old 04-19-2019, 12:56 AM   #14686
cuserounder
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
cuserounder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: East Coast
Posts: 8,166
Re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: Harm to Ongoing Matter

Quote:
Originally Posted by np1235711 View Post
Cuse,

The Mueller Report seems to have put the "collusion with Russia" argument to bed for all but the many dead enders and drones here. Fantasies abound.... Comey and Strzok, et al are in more legal jeopardy than your President and his family.

It must suck to have to face the reality that a TV host beat one of the Ten Best Lawyers in America for the presidency..... and there ain't nuthin anyone can do about it for 2 more years.
Can you please elaborate as to how the Mueller report put the "collusion with Russia" argument to bed? Use your own words (don't just use quotes from Dear Leader/Sean/Tucker), cite pages in the report and explain in detail. Thanks! I think that could lead to some vigorous debate with a little bit of fun and leave us both more enlightened.

First of all, Mueller referenced the DOJ opinion that a sitting president cannot be indicted. As a result, Trump was never being indicted no matter what. Thus, the conclusion that no charges = exoneration is bogus.

Second, there is a difference between criminal conspiracy and layman's collusion. Basically the defense the right is falling back on is, "Well it wasn't illegal!"

Okay, that may or may not be true - it's the opinion of Trump's hand picked crony AG. However, if it's not, we need to update our laws... Because Trump and his campaign worked with a bunch of foreign intermediaries to collude with the Russian government. Their saving grace was a layer in between and ineptitude. The intent was there and the end result was there.

And by the way, most of us have been saying for quite some time now that Trump was never going down himself in this.

Yes, it does suck a great deal that this racist ******* gets to be president for two more years. It's depressing that he gets to keep trying to separate kids from their parents and locking them in cages. I guess some people may feel all warm and fuzzy inside about that, and actually support it, which makes them colossal pieces of **** who should **** off. I certainly hope you're not one of the people who feels that way, because I would hate to insult you!

Quote:
Originally Posted by wheatrich View Post
I actually disagree with cuse, nixon wasn't brought down until after they actually did impeachment investigations/hearings. There's too many low info voters out there. There were a LOT of people saying Nixon was innocent/witch hunt (same **** nothing ever changes) and casuals just thought it was all partisan bickering until they actually did something.
Nixon didn't have Fox News, though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wheatrich View Post
It's interesting, people out here thinking they should run on policy when I don't believe the majority of voters give a **** at all about any of that. I'd guess they're better off with "trump bad don't vote for trump". Sure, don't make that the entire focus but I don't believe in "voters really care about x" when they've shown little sign of doing any of that ever.
Wasn't 2016 based around "Trump bad, don't vote for Trump?"

Wasn't 2018 based around policy?

Voters may not care about intricacies of policy, but they care about jobs/wages and healthcare. Tell them how you're going to improve their healthcare and put more money in their pocket, and convince them a vote for you is better than a vote for the other guy in those departments and you win.

The only ones who give a **** whether Trump is impeached/jailed/etc are always always always voting for you anyway. The danger is having the group that wants to hear about jobs/wages/healthcare think that instead of focusing on that stuff, you're focusing on presidential harassment. That's how you lose in 2020. The message will be, "The crazy radical leftist Dems are more interested in harassing our president than improving your jobs/wages/healthcare and keeping you safe."

That will stick if the next 12-18 months are about impeachment and investigations. Investigate him quietly, don't make a big deal about it, call it due diligence and push jobs/wages/healthcare constantly at every level.
cuserounder is offline  
Old 04-19-2019, 12:59 AM   #14687
Paul D
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Paul D's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: L.H.O.O.Q.
Posts: 14,609
Re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: Harm to Ongoing Matter

Nixon didn't have Fox News but the country was more backwards then.
Paul D is offline  
Old 04-19-2019, 01:12 AM   #14688
cuserounder
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
cuserounder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: East Coast
Posts: 8,166
Re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: Harm to Ongoing Matter

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul D View Post
Nixon didn't have Fox News but the country was more backwards then.
You sure about that?
cuserounder is offline  
Old 04-19-2019, 01:17 AM   #14689
Paul D
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Paul D's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: L.H.O.O.Q.
Posts: 14,609
Re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: Harm to Ongoing Matter

Quite sure of it.

Call me when the National Guard rolls up on a major university and opens fire.

Or go talk to older gay and/or black people.
Paul D is offline  
Old 04-19-2019, 01:25 AM   #14690
microbet
Solar Powered
 
microbet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: SoCal
Posts: 54,383
Re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: Harm to Ongoing Matter

microbet is offline  
Old 04-19-2019, 02:08 AM   #14691
cuserounder
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
cuserounder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: East Coast
Posts: 8,166
Re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: Harm to Ongoing Matter

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul D View Post
Quite sure of it.

Call me when the National Guard rolls up on a major university and opens fire.

Or go talk to older gay and/or black people.
Yeah, I know, but three things:

1) This country is still pretty backwards.

2) Things seem to be getting worse, not better.

3) In terms of fealty to the president based on the letter next to his name, I think we're more backwards now than we were then (and mostly due to Fox news).

I will say seeing documentaries and listening to podcasts about how messed up things were during Nixon's presidency does give me more hope than just about anything else that we can move on from this one...
cuserounder is offline  
Old 04-19-2019, 02:21 AM   #14692
Paul D
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Paul D's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: L.H.O.O.Q.
Posts: 14,609
Re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: Harm to Ongoing Matter

Quote:
Originally Posted by cuserounder View Post
Yeah, I know, but three things:

1) This country is still pretty backwards.

2) Things seem to be getting worse, not better.

3) In terms of fealty to the president based on the letter next to his name, I think we're more backwards now than we were then (and mostly due to Fox news).

I will say seeing documentaries and listening to podcasts about how messed up things were during Nixon's presidency does give me more hope than just about anything else that we can move on from this one...
This country is backwards because leftists and liberals rather argue about who is the holiest holy person to lead us and that's the way it's always been instead of doing what needs to be done and grinding the right into dust.

Things have gotten progressively better for lgbt people, women, and black people in the past thirty years. And today more people stood up for refugees than they would've forty years ago. There's still a lot of work to do to get this society away from the ugliness.

As bad as Trump is. He may have been what the left and liberals needed. A reality check. I am guilty of thinking the ugliness was mostly a thing of the past until Trump. Now I know the struggle is real.
Paul D is offline  
Old 04-19-2019, 03:22 AM   #14693
ChrisV
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
ChrisV's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Adelaide, Australia
Posts: 40,378
Re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: Harm to Ongoing Matter

Gotta say I am enjoying cuse's attempts to argue in good faith with conservatives who post here. Maybe the fact that none of them ever reply except with more low-grade trolling can make an appearance when we present our next State of 2+2 Politardia Report to Mason.
ChrisV is offline  
Old 04-19-2019, 03:28 AM   #14694
markksman
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
markksman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Unstuckpolitics.com
Posts: 20,894
Re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

Quote:
Originally Posted by np1235711 View Post
Cuse,

The Mueller Report seems to have put the "collusion with Russia" argument to bed for all but the many dead enders and drones here. Fantasies abound.... Comey and Strzok, et al are in more legal jeopardy than your President and his family.

It must suck to have to face the reality that a TV host beat one of the Ten Best Lawyers in America for the presidency..... and there ain't nuthin anyone can do about it for 2 more years.
Did you actually read any of the released report or did you just rely on breitbart and Fox News to tell you what to think?
markksman is offline  
Old 04-19-2019, 04:25 AM   #14695
np1235711
old hand
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 1,217
Re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrWookie View Post
In your own words, what was the "smoking gun" for Nixon, why did it lead to his resignation, and why is this so much worse than what Mueller showed Trump did?
Words have meanings fellas......
np1235711 is offline  
Old 04-19-2019, 04:27 AM   #14696
np1235711
old hand
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 1,217
Re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

Quote:
Originally Posted by markksman View Post
Did you actually read any of the released report or did you just rely on breitbart and Fox News to tell you what to think?
Did Mueller and his friends indict anyone for colluding with the Ruskies to throw the election illegally? Please point out where that happened?
np1235711 is offline  
Old 04-19-2019, 05:05 AM   #14697
Money2Burn
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Misreading your post.
Posts: 12,634
Re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

Quote:
Originally Posted by np1235711 View Post
Did Mueller and his friends indict anyone for colluding with the Ruskies to throw the election illegally? Please point out where that happened?
There is no crime called “collusion.” Mueller indicted 34 people and 3 businesses. Mike Flynn and Roger Stone were both convicted for their illegal activities conducted relating to their coordination with Russia on the Trump campaign’s behalf. Don Jr certainly colluded, as the report explains in great detail, but Mueller decided it was unethical to prosecute the mentally infirm.
Money2Burn is offline  
Old 04-19-2019, 05:13 AM   #14698
ChrisV
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
ChrisV's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Adelaide, Australia
Posts: 40,378
Re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

Quote:
Originally Posted by np1235711 View Post
Did Mueller and his friends indict anyone for colluding with the Ruskies to throw the election illegally? Please point out where that happened?
Quote:
Originally Posted by cuserounder View Post
Second, there is a difference between criminal conspiracy and layman's collusion. Basically the defense the right is falling back on is, "Well it wasn't illegal!"
.
ChrisV is offline  
Old 04-19-2019, 05:15 AM   #14699
np1235711
old hand
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 1,217
Re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: Harm to Ongoing Matter

Quote:
Originally Posted by cuserounder View Post
Can you please elaborate as to how the Mueller report put the "collusion with Russia" argument to bed?
Easy peazy.... Mr. Mueller and his merry band of men had all the resources of the FBI, DOJ and every other segment of the greatest information gathering organizations in the history of the world with a gaggle of partisans working with him and didn't find evidence sufficient to indict a ham sandwich.

Mueller's actions tell me that. What about you.... got some conspiracy theories.... ohhhh Trumpkins talked to Russians....weeeeeee.......
np1235711 is offline  
Old 04-19-2019, 05:21 AM   #14700
np1235711
old hand
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 1,217
Re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

Quote:
Originally Posted by Money2Burn View Post
There is no crime called “collusion.” Mueller indicted 34 people and 3 businesses. Mike Flynn and Roger Stone were both convicted for their illegal activities conducted relating to their coordination with Russia on the Trump campaign’s behalf. Don Jr certainly colluded, as the report explains in great detail, but Mueller decided it was unethical to prosecute the mentally infirm.
But there certainly ARE crimes to engage with foreign nationals to pervert the outcome of federal elections and Mueller found none of this.... maybe some other campaign was guilty of this offense?????

Time will tell.....
np1235711 is offline  

 
      

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 01:09 AM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 2008-2020, Two Plus Two Interactive