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Old 04-18-2019, 02:04 PM   #14551
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Re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

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Originally Posted by Nicholasp27 View Post
The campaigns can campaign on healthcare, education, wages, etc.


But the duly elected officials should investigate formally Trumpís fitness for office even if they donít think republicans will convict


Otherwise we are at an impasse where all that has to happen if a president allegedly does bad things is his party comes out and says they wonít convict or act against him and the investigations donít happen

We also see that the executive branch is fully non-cooperative at this point with the Treasury breaking the law and the AG shilling for the president.
Yup, that's all that has to happen for the investigations to be useless, so it's pretty much all that has to happen already. It's what's happening. What's your end game here? The Democrats launch investigations and...?

And no matter what the candidates campaign on, they'll be asked about it over and over, and some will be on committees that have hearings about it. They can't totally dodge it.

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Originally Posted by Clovis8 View Post
Because;

Itís their job
Itís core to a functioning democracy
He is not fit for office.

Your take is absolute poison. Sure it helps in 2020 but it is toxic to your functioning democracy.
Yup, agreed. But it's less toxic to my functioning democracy than four more years of Trump. Keep in mind if he wins, he will know he is totally unimpeachable in any way, shape or form, and imagine what that means for this country...
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Old 04-18-2019, 02:04 PM   #14552
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Re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

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They can investigate him, but if Dems impeach him in the House, it has 0% chance of leading to a conviction in the Senate and a >>>>>> 0% chance of leading to an electoral backlash that boosts Trump's chances. Why in the world would they do that?

You're essentially arguing that boosting Trump's odds of re-election is how we stop the downward spiral.
It's possible for a trial and subsequent acquittal to hurt Trump's re-election chances. Or the re-election prospects of GOP senators.
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Old 04-18-2019, 02:04 PM   #14553
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Re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

I also don’t think there is any evidence impeaching him will somehow hand him the election.
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Old 04-18-2019, 02:06 PM   #14554
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Re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

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It's possible for a trial and subsequent acquittal to hurt Trump's re-election chances. Or the re-election prospects of GOP senators.
I wish. You want it to be one way, but it's the other way. It will basically hurt Trump in blue districts and help him in red districts. It'll further polarize the electorate, and that's to the advantage of the GOP.

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I also donít think there is any evidence impeaching him will somehow hand him the election.
Turnout on the right will go through the roof. There will be a huge backlash.
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Old 04-18-2019, 02:10 PM   #14555
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Re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

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It's possible for a trial and subsequent acquittal to hurt Trump's re-election chances. Or the re-election prospects of GOP senators.
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I also donít think there is any evidence impeaching him will somehow hand him the election.
Sample size of 1 here, but after Clinton's impeachment, Dems gained net 4 Senate seats in 2000 (+WA, MN, MO, MI, FL, DE; -VA, NV). Obviously they lost the presidency but Clinton wasn't running for re-election (he probably would have done better than Gore though).
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Old 04-18-2019, 02:11 PM   #14556
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Re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

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Originally Posted by Clovis8 View Post
I also don’t think there is any evidence impeaching him will somehow hand him the election.


It's not evidence necessarily but considering nothing yet has dropped Trump's approval ratings it seems like the only direction for them to move is up.
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Old 04-18-2019, 02:17 PM   #14557
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Re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

https://twitter.com/pixelatedboat/st...89139833724928
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Old 04-18-2019, 02:19 PM   #14558
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Re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

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Sample size of 1 here, but after Clinton's impeachment, Dems gained net 4 Senate seats in 2000 (+WA, MN, MO, MI, FL, DE; -VA, NV). Obviously they lost the presidency but Clinton wasn't running for re-election (he probably would have done better than Gore though).
The Democrats won the Presidency in 2000. If Bush and Goreís electoral positions had been swapped, then ďGore v BushĒ wouldíve been 9-0 for a full statewide recount.
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Old 04-18-2019, 02:32 PM   #14559
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Re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

The job of Congress is not to get the next president elected. That is the job of the DCCC.

Congress’ job is to serve a as co-equal branch of government and a check on the legislative branch.

Nothing posted so far is evidence he wins if impeached. I am not saying I disagree. Intuitively the argument makes sense but I don’t think it’s near as certain as other itt and as I already stated it’s immaterial to the job of Congress.
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Old 04-18-2019, 02:33 PM   #14560
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Re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

I kinda think the optics of Republicans voting against impeaching a clearly corrupt administration are terrible for their brand and good for the Dems. Like I really think this is hella different from Whitewater.
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Old 04-18-2019, 02:34 PM   #14561
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Re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

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It's possible for a trial and subsequent acquittal to hurt Trump's re-election chances. Or the re-election prospects of GOP senators.
This, basically.
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Old 04-18-2019, 02:36 PM   #14562
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Re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

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I kinda think the optics of Republicans voting against impeaching a clearly corrupt administration are terrible for their brand and good for the Dems. Like I really think this is hella different from Whitewater.
Not to 40-45% of the country. I haven't turned on Fox News today, but I have a feeling they're beating the exoneration drum.
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Old 04-18-2019, 02:42 PM   #14563
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Re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

Right now on Breitbart:

MUELLER MELTDOWN: THE HOAXES LIVE ON DESPITE TOTAL EXONERATION

LEFTISTS, NEVER-TRUMPERS CLAIM 'PEE PEE TAPE' REAL (BASED ON MISLEADING SCREENSHOT)

MORE EXONERATION! NO COLLUSION, NO OBSTRUCTION...

WH FULLY COOPERATED WITH SPECIAL COUNSEL...

It's bull****, but it's being mainlined by like 30-35% of the country.
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Old 04-18-2019, 02:45 PM   #14564
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Re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

Turned on Fox for like 30 seconds, the lower third was about how Mueller found no evidence of a crime by Trump, and they were discussing how the Dems were going to impeach for pure partisan gain.
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Old 04-18-2019, 02:51 PM   #14565
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Re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

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Not to 40-45% of the country. I haven't turned on Fox News today, but I have a feeling they're beating the exoneration drum.
Those people were never persuadable anyway. Itís the casuals that matters, and getting the base mobilized.

Dems were able to control the narrative with mainstream voters during the Clinton impeachment and say ďhey, these guys have gone too far, who even cares about a blowjob.Ē Thatís a lot harder to pull off with a report like this.
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Old 04-18-2019, 02:54 PM   #14566
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Re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

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Those people were never persuadable anyway. Itís the casuals that matters, and getting the base mobilized.

Dems were able to control the narrative with mainstream voters during the Clinton impeachment and say ďhey, these guys have gone too far, who even cares about a blowjob.Ē Thatís a lot harder to pull off with a report like this.
It mobilizes them to donate and turn out to protect their guy, though... and you have to keep in mind that the casuals don't pay much attention, and are way more likely to assume the truth is somewhere in the middle, etc, etc, and they mostly want to hear about healthcare and jobs/income.
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Old 04-18-2019, 02:57 PM   #14567
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Re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

Nadler says it's too soon for impeachment talk, etc, etc, gotta follow the evidence where it leads.
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Old 04-18-2019, 03:00 PM   #14568
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Re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

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I mean Jake Tapper and Anderson Cooper are literally discussing right now whether or not even investigating Trump is a huge losing play by Democrats. They think it is. I agree. Dems win 2020 if it's about healthcare, jobs, income inequality, etc... If they make it about Trump, well how did 2016 go?
Bernie is not "the Democrats". The Democrats can investigate the **** out of everything and Trump will still lose depending on who he runs against.
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Old 04-18-2019, 03:04 PM   #14569
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Re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

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It mobilizes them to donate and turn out to protect their guy, though... and you have to keep in mind that the casuals don't pay much attention, and are way more likely to assume the truth is somewhere in the middle, etc, etc, and they mostly want to hear about healthcare and jobs/income.
OK, but letís flip this around: the Dem base is going to be completely demotivated if their reps donít at least go trough the motions of trying to have Trump thrown out.
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Old 04-18-2019, 03:06 PM   #14570
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Re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

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Bernie is not "the Democrats". The Democrats can investigate the **** out of everything and Trump will still lose depending on who he runs against.
Perhaps, but I would imagine no matter who wins they will try to run on the issues and ignore the Russia stuff. The problem is that for the next ~14 months, if investigations and impeachment hearings are going on, the entire field will be asked about it constantly and a few candidates will be on committees carrying out the investigations. It'll make part of the election/campaign about that, and Trump will hammer it repeatedly. He'll fundraise off of it and turn out his base off of it.
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Old 04-18-2019, 03:07 PM   #14571
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Re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

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OK, but letís flip this around: the Dem base is going to be completely demotivated if their reps donít at least go trough the motions of trying to have Trump thrown out.
I don't know, some will I guess? I won't because I'll think they're doing the right thing. They can investigate him, but they should downplay it as "due diligence" and laugh off impeachment whenever it's brought up.
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Old 04-18-2019, 03:18 PM   #14572
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Re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

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Originally Posted by Huehuecoyotl View Post
How cities get rid of their homeless populations is they buy them bus tickets to another city. If the cities didn't want asylum seekers, they can just turn around and bus them to suburbia if they wanted to.
I used to work at a state institution in PA. Youngstown, OH was notorious for dumping its mentally ill people in Sharon, PA. They frequently ended up in our facility.
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Old 04-18-2019, 03:20 PM   #14573
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Re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

Suggest thread title change: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: Harm to Ongoing Matter
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Old 04-18-2019, 03:25 PM   #14574
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Re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

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The job of Congress is not to get the next president elected. That is the job of the DCCC.
Oh come on. The logical extension of this, that a Dem Congress can hypothetically run around for two years doing terrible things that everyone hates and then bear no blame whatsoever when the Dem presidential candidate loses, is plainly idiotic.

(plus, the job of the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee is not to get the president elected, did you mean the DNC?)
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Old 04-18-2019, 03:25 PM   #14575
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Re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

Well done, suzzer. +1

Also if we could just set it up to turn all of the Inso0 and Keed posts to walls of redacted text, that would be great.
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