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Old 04-07-2019, 08:16 PM   #13501
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Re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

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Old 04-07-2019, 08:18 PM   #13502
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Re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

Quote:
Originally Posted by Melkerson View Post
Bolded is true, but as you say in the very next sentence you would have to know the specifics of the arrangement.



So, really the best you can claim is having an affair is likely to be immoral.



/nit
His wife left him. I can at least be pretty sure it was an affair.
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Old 04-07-2019, 08:18 PM   #13503
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Re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

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Originally Posted by Clovis8 View Post
Of course, conservatives are massive hypocrites, about sex more than anything, but they are hypocrites about nearly every single topic you can name.
The topic i like to sometimes name is their sex lives since they insert their sex views into politics. This guy belongs to the GOP a party who has used One Man One Women family values as a tool to shame and even oppress those that dont fit. His cheating is fair game even without the trustworthiness leaking into his politics.
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Old 04-07-2019, 08:25 PM   #13504
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Re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

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Originally Posted by Clovis8 View Post
I posted hours ago a response to you. I didnít post a specific source because I respect you enough to know you know the data, and can use google. Research on the topic is all over the place with ranges from 25-70%. Methodologies are all over the place and subject to the same serious limitations as all sex research.
This is just 100% bull****. You don't get to make stupid claims then let the other side do your research. If there isn't a consensus in the data you don't get to make a blanket claim.
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Old 04-07-2019, 08:29 PM   #13505
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Re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

the argument against clovis point that he can't seem to understand is that lying begets lying. to my knowledge this is scientifically proven. lying in small things leads to ease in lying in other things.

just saying that lying on your taxes isnt the same thing as lying in your marriage isnt or that "everyone lies" enough to refute this position..

it's totally rational to think that a person lying about their private life is more likely to lie in their official capacity as well.
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Old 04-07-2019, 08:32 PM   #13506
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Re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

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it's totally rational to think that a person lying about their private life is more likely to lie in their official capacity as well.
This is absolutely not true.
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Old 04-07-2019, 08:32 PM   #13507
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Re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

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This is absolutely not true.
k.
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Old 04-07-2019, 08:35 PM   #13508
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Re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

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This is just 100% bull****. You don't get to make stupid claims then let the other side do your research. If there isn't a consensus in the data you don't get to make a blanket claim.
Give me a break. Iím not making you do the research. Iím assuming you can google.

Iíll admit my 50% claim was me cherry picking the data to support my view but it absolutely doesnít hurt my actual position which was cheating is very common. Itís silly to label something immoral that more than 25% of the population does.
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Old 04-07-2019, 08:37 PM   #13509
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Re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

It’s not like we don’t have a pretty solid case study of what a pathological liar in their personal life does when they, say, become President of the United States.
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Old 04-07-2019, 08:39 PM   #13510
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Re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

Child jailer resigning for not being extreme enough on immigration. Gg America.
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Old 04-07-2019, 08:45 PM   #13511
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Re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

Quote:
Originally Posted by Clovis8 View Post
I know my take is just crazy. I don’t invest the strength or value of my relationships, or those of others, is whether my partners genitalia has touched another person.
So then don't get in that kind of relationship. Do people with different sexual values than you deserve to be lied to because their values are stupid to you? JFC, you are a hypocrite.
Quote:

P.S. The argument equating cheating on your taxes and cheating on your spouse is so galactically stupid that it doesn’t warrant a response. Every single person itt knows the clear and obvious differences.
No. Nobody made that argument. You said:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clovis8 View Post
99.9%
Broad Policy understanding
Management ability
Historical understanding
Economic understanding

0.01%
“morality”
I ASKED (didn't argue)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Truant View Post
What does cheating on your taxes have to do with being a good politician based on the list you provided for qualifications?
And further, I asked you because yeah, every single person ITT also understands that lying to your spouse about an expectation of monogamy is the immoral part--not non-monogamy....except you.
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Old 04-07-2019, 08:46 PM   #13512
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Old 04-07-2019, 08:51 PM   #13513
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Re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

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So then don't get in that kind of relationship. Do people with different sexual values than you deserve to be lied to because their values are stupid to you? JFC, you are a hypocrite.


No. Nobody made that argument. You said:


I ASKED (didn't argue)



And further, I asked you because yeah, every single person ITT also understands the difference between lying to your spouse about an expectation of monogamy being the immoral part--not non-monogamy....except you.
Nice gaslighting yet again. I said cheating is wrong many many many times but here you are yet again claiming I said the exact opposite. My values are the exact same. Cheating is wrong. Should I write it in bold red?

Not a single person in history who has attacked a politician for infidelity is doing so because of the lying to the spouse part. I know you don’t think this so why keep saying it. They are attacked for not following conservative Christian morality around marriage.

Finally, people who are cheated on have been harmed, not their constituents.
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Old 04-07-2019, 09:04 PM   #13514
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Old 04-07-2019, 09:06 PM   #13515
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Re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

Quote:
Originally Posted by Clovis8 View Post
Give me a break. Iím not making you do the research. Iím assuming you can google.
It's this kind of **** that make your claims of others arguing in "bad faith" so laughable.

Quote:
Iíll admit my 50% claim was me cherry picking the data to support my view but it absolutely doesnít hurt my actual position which was cheating is very common. Itís silly to label something immoral that more than 25% of the population does.
So slavery was moral? Do you even listen to yourself?
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Old 04-07-2019, 09:08 PM   #13516
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Re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

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Originally Posted by Clovis8 View Post
Nice gaslighting yet again. I said cheating is wrong many many many times but here you are yet again claiming I said the exact opposite. My values are the exact same. Cheating is wrong. Should I write it in bold red?

Not a single person in history who has attacked a politician for infidelity is doing so because of the lying to the spouse part. I know you donít think this so why keep saying it. They are attacked for not following conservative Christian morality around marriage.

Finally, people who are cheated on have been harmed, not their constituents.
I'm gaslighting? Who even argued anything counter to the bolded? Good lord, you have zero reading comprehension is the issue. I am not conservative or Christian, dude. I am not attacking a politician for anything. YOU made the claim that CHEATING on your spouse in multiple marriages is irrelevant to gauging a persons trustworthiness in other capacities. When people say...nah (and no, not a single person said it was a sole measure, or even the most important measure), you want to turn it into another kink shame attack based on puritan values and fear of genitalia, cuz THAT seems to be your real kink.
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Old 04-07-2019, 09:13 PM   #13517
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Re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

Cheating is wrong but that does not make it immoral - for it is also a popular pursuit.

Is that more or less an accurate summary of your opinion here?
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Old 04-07-2019, 09:17 PM   #13518
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Re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

Lol galaxy brain Clovis.
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Old 04-07-2019, 09:18 PM   #13519
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Re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

Wow, filled the DHS vacancy fast and went young,,,

Spoiler:
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Old 04-07-2019, 09:20 PM   #13520
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Re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

We know the debate is over when really bad poker analogies are trotted out.

I’m done with this debate. I too often underestimate how deep conservative Christian morality is embedded in the US psyche. Even the most extreme left can’t resist defending it.
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Old 04-07-2019, 09:24 PM   #13521
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Re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

It’s not Christianity in our brains. It’s stupidity in yours. You show again and again a failure to understand simple concepts, like behavior in one major area of your life being related to behavior in others.
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Old 04-07-2019, 09:27 PM   #13522
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Re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

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USA is 179th density wise, not even in that USA is n1.
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Old 04-07-2019, 09:30 PM   #13523
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Re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

What the hell is a tariff on an immigrant? Who is paying this tariff? Are immigrants listed in the Harmonized Tariff Schedule?
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Old 04-07-2019, 09:31 PM   #13524
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Re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

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Originally Posted by MrWookie View Post
His wife left him. I can at least be pretty sure it was an affair.
Perhaps. But what you stated sounded like a general claim

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrWookie View Post
Having an affair is immoral, as it's a betrayal of the arrangement you made with someone. If the pol was openly polyamorous or something, that would be different.
That doesn't sound like you're limiting your claim to his case only.
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Old 04-07-2019, 09:36 PM   #13525
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Re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

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Originally Posted by Clovis8 View Post
I know my take is just crazy. I donít invest the strength or value of my relationships, or those of others, is whether my partners genitalia has touched another person.


Also I canít believe how bad faith the debate has been itt on this topic. I have literally posted MULTIPLE times that cheating is dishonest and I am not ok with. My point was that it has nothing to do with the ability of a politician to do her job .

This doesnít stop several posters, completely knowingly, to post about how Iím totally good with infidelity. And you wonder why I point out trumpkin tendencies on some. Itís pure gaslighting.

P.S. The argument equating cheating on your taxes and cheating on your spouse is so galactically stupid that it doesnít warrant a response. Every single person itt knows the clear and obvious differences.
The problem with your whole point is bolded. I'm kind of on your side here, but even I would admit between cheating in a relationship has some small correlation with being a less trustworthy politician. In my opinion, the correlation is probably low and there are so many other factors involved in my decision that it doesn't move the needle much. But to claim it has nothing to do with it at all is nonsensical. Just concede to "very little" and be done with it.
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