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Old 04-07-2019, 12:06 PM   #13376
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Re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

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Originally Posted by Clovis8 View Post
Corruption is obviously bad but who gives a **** how many affairs a politician has had.

Why play into their bull**** moral framework?
If a person treats an intimate partner with disrespect, what reason do you have to believe that they'll treat their constituents differently?
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Old 04-07-2019, 12:08 PM   #13377
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Re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

I think Clovis thinks we are kink shaming someone for lying to their partners instead of recognizing that it is rare for someone to behave one way in their personal life and another way in their public life.
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Old 04-07-2019, 12:25 PM   #13378
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Re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

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So is it 13 or 17 Trump Haters? And can he even name one of them?

Asking for a friend.
Yes, Greenland.
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Old 04-07-2019, 12:25 PM   #13379
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Re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

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Originally Posted by Clovis8 View Post
The majority of people will cheat on their partner at least once in life. Odd to label something like this immoral.

Obviously it’s a breech of trust but not one that has any bearing at all to a politicians fit for duty or job performance.

Americans are so insanely obsessed with policing the sex lives of other people. It’s crazy!
any person who secretly cheats on a spouse who would have left them had they known is highly immoral because they deprived them of information that would have led them to seek a different life than what they have
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Old 04-07-2019, 12:27 PM   #13380
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Re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

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Originally Posted by SuperUberBob View Post
If a person treats an intimate partner with disrespect, what reason do you have to believe that they'll treat their constituents differently?
That I cheat on my wife doesn't mean that I treat my employees badly.
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Old 04-07-2019, 12:29 PM   #13381
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Re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

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Originally Posted by bacalaopeace View Post
That I cheat on my wife doesn't mean that I treat my employees badly.
But it means you aren't as trustworthy as someone who doesn't treat their employees OR spouse badly.
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Old 04-07-2019, 12:36 PM   #13382
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Re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

Cheating on a spouse is obviously immoral. 50% of people doing it hardly means it's strange to call it immoral. 50% of people do a lot of immoral things. And why can't we try to elect leaders who are less immoral than average? (I don't think we can accomplish that, but trying isn't a bad idea.)
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Old 04-07-2019, 12:47 PM   #13383
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Re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

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Originally Posted by David Sklansky View Post
any person who secretly cheats on a spouse who would have left them had they known is highly immoral because they deprived them of information that would have led them to seek a different life than what they have
Not if there is near certainty that the spouse would never know.
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Old 04-07-2019, 12:50 PM   #13384
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Re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

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Originally Posted by microbet View Post
Cheating on a spouse is obviously immoral. 50% of people doing it hardly means it's strange to call it immoral. 50% of people do a lot of immoral things. And why can't we try to elect leaders who are less immoral than average? (I don't think we can accomplish that, but trying isn't a bad idea.)
While I don't agree that the bolded is obvious, I think the rest is correct. There are thousands, maybe tens of thousands, of people who would make good presidents, and we certainly ought to be able to try to choose one who generates minimal doubts about integrity and the like.
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Old 04-07-2019, 12:50 PM   #13385
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Re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

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A Democrat friend of mine did the video for this event.
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Old 04-07-2019, 12:52 PM   #13386
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Re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

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Originally Posted by MrWookie View Post
Having an affair is immoral, as it's a betrayal of the arrangement you made with someone. If the pol was openly polyamorous or something, that would be different.
Bolded is true, but as you say in the very next sentence you would have to know the specifics of the arrangement.

So, really the best you can claim is having an affair is likely to be immoral.

/nit
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Old 04-07-2019, 12:54 PM   #13387
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Re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

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Originally Posted by SuperUberBob View Post
If a person treats an intimate partner with disrespect, what reason do you have to believe that they'll treat their constituents differently?
People treat different people differently. I don't know if that's good enough for you. But it's a reason and it seems empirically true.
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Old 04-07-2019, 01:02 PM   #13388
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Re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

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Originally Posted by Melkerson View Post
Bolded is true, but as you say in the very next sentence you would have to know the specifics of the arrangement.



So, really the best you can claim is having an affair is likely to be immoral.



/nit
If you have an open marriage it's not having an affair. It's having an open marriage. This seems pretty obvious.

Not sure why people are going to bat defending someone who, based on the evidence we have, is a piece of garbage
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Old 04-07-2019, 01:11 PM   #13389
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Re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

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Originally Posted by feedthabeast View Post
If you have an open marriage it's not having an affair. It's having an open marriage. This seems pretty obvious.
These things are often described as "affairs" by outsiders, press, etc. because they're assuming by default a traditional relationship.

There are lots of things between traditional and open marriage. I met a guy who claims that he and his spouse are fine with "cheating" as long as no one else they know finds out about it. I'm not sure I'd call that open.

Quote:
Not sure why people are going to bat defending someone who, based on the evidence we have, is a piece of garbage
I'm not going to bat for him. He's a garbage human. Affair or not.
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Old 04-07-2019, 01:11 PM   #13390
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Re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

What people do I their sex lives is completely irrelevant to the rest of their lives (assuming it is legal). This is such an obvious point so many people can’t grasp.
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Old 04-07-2019, 01:21 PM   #13391
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Re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

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Originally Posted by kerowo View Post
But it means you aren't as trustworthy as someone who doesn't treat their employees OR spouse badly.
why is that?
I disagree 100%.
remove sexual pressure and people become a totally different animal.
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Old 04-07-2019, 01:21 PM   #13392
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Re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

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Originally Posted by Clovis8 View Post
What people do I their sex lives is completely irrelevant to the rest of their lives (assuming it is legal). This is such an obvious point so many people can’t grasp.
Did you find that study that said more than 50% of people cheat?

How many people does someone have to lie to before you start to question their honesty?
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Old 04-07-2019, 01:22 PM   #13393
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Re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

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Originally Posted by weeeez View Post
why is that?
I disagree 100%.
remove sexual pressure and people become a totally different animal.
Why would you trust someone who lies under pressure (sexual or otherwise) more than someone who didn't?
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Old 04-07-2019, 01:23 PM   #13394
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Re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

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Originally Posted by Clovis8 View Post
What people do I their sex lives is completely irrelevant to the rest of their lives (assuming it is legal). This is such an obvious point so many people canít grasp.
Are you ever not wrong?
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Old 04-07-2019, 01:26 PM   #13395
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Re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

That's why you should just ignore Stormy Daniels, Karen McDougal, etc. guys. Everyone does it.
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Old 04-07-2019, 01:29 PM   #13396
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Re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

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Originally Posted by kerowo View Post
Why would you trust someone who lies under pressure (sexual or otherwise) more than someone who didn't?
you have a way to twisting my words.
I didn't say I would trust MORE.
Also I didn't say sexual OR OTHERWISE.
My point was about sexuality only, as in passion vs raison.
Take out that layer and humans are capable of overcoming mountains with whatever arbitrary principles they agreed on.

cliffs:wouldn't trust less or more someone who cheated on his wife vs someone who didn't regarding a non sexual issue.

edit:and I think clovis is right.America has such a problem with sex , it's one of the most important issues of this country (and I'd argue you the world might be a better place if americans solved it).
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Old 04-07-2019, 01:31 PM   #13397
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Re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

If someone is willing to break the trust of someone they are closer with than anyone else I think that is a reason to believe they might not be trustworthy with random people.

Cheat on your g/f in college, sure. Married and kids. Different imo.

Last edited by prana; 04-07-2019 at 01:37 PM.
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Old 04-07-2019, 01:36 PM   #13398
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Re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

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Originally Posted by Clovis8 View Post
What people do I their sex lives is completely irrelevant to the rest of their lives (assuming it is legal). This is such an obvious point so many people can’t grasp.
As long as they dont hold themslefs out to be the moral arbiters of truth which includes being wholesome family men. If the GOP is going to preach we should be in monogamous relationships then them not doing that is fair game.
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Old 04-07-2019, 01:38 PM   #13399
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Re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

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Originally Posted by kerowo View Post
Did you find that study that said more than 50% of people cheat?

How many people does someone have to lie to before you start to question their honesty?
As I’m sure you know there are studies citing numbers as high as 70% and others as low as 25%. Like all sex research it is plagued with reporting bias and definition bias.

My point is infidelity is very common. It’s a breech of trust for sure but the word immoral is very strong.

As for lying that is also a very odd bar. You have never lied about your sex life?

If lying about ones sex life precludes public office we better find a new political system because nobody will be able to work in this one.

Let me turn it around. Why does having an affair speak to ones ability to be a politician?
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Old 04-07-2019, 01:41 PM   #13400
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Re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

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Are you ever not wrong?
Iím wrong lots, just not about this.
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