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Old 03-28-2019, 06:57 PM   #12651
SenorKeeed
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Re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

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Originally Posted by cuserounder View Post
Barr would have to be a total maniac to suggest a bunch of presidential pardons to help shut down a special counsel investigation and protect the president, too, right?

Note that Barr specifically referenced colluding with the Russian government.

Also note that a lot of the stuff Schiff listed could be done in a way that was not technically illegal, but of course runs totally against any sort of American ideals about proper behavior by our elected leaders and those running for office. Stuff that Schiff should certainly not be okay with, nor should anyone. Stuff that should lead to changes in our laws because it SHOULD be illegal, even if it isn't already.
"technically" illegal? The law is technical! If it isn't technical then there isn't a law at all. If something is technically legal then it's legal. Period.

Look, I'm not defending Barr, I'm not saying he's honest or a good guy or can be relied on. I'm saying something very simple. If Mueller actually found criminality around the Trump campaign's interactions with Russians, then Barr would be crazy to misrepresent that and say that Mueller found no such criminality. You really think that Mueller would just sit silently while Barr made such a substantial and direct misrepresentation? It seems inconceivable.
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Old 03-28-2019, 06:59 PM   #12652
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Re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

That **** looks straight out of Scarface's depiction of where Cuban refugees stayed.
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Old 03-28-2019, 07:03 PM   #12653
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Re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

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I've never and don't plan on registering as a Dem. In California the Democratic primary is semi-open and I went to a fair amount of trouble in 2016 to vote for Bernie (had to go to the county offices) and I'll do it again if necessary.
Fair enough, no problem with that as long as you can vote in the primaries when there are good candidates who match most of your views (which I suspect will be every time from now on).

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Maybe and if I were dictator I wouldn't do anything huge all at once, but it worked pretty well in America up until the Chinese exclusion act.
Fair enough.

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I suppose, but that's very theoretical. Immigration from Mexico was very large in like 2000, but from 2008 until now has been the other direction or close to net zero. The economic opportunities thing takes care of itself.
Agreed - it could just take some time to equalize and there could be problems/challenges if the in-flow was too high the first few years.

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Maybe. I don't think that many of the climate refugees will be coming to the United States though. I can't afford to go to Bangladesh and I don't think many Bangladeshi refugees can afford to come here.
There are over 400 million people in South America, and another ~50 million in Central America. Throw in ~130 million in Mexico, and you're looking at 580 million people. I think it's reasonable to think that 100+ million of those could be forced to relocate as a result of climate change, and many will be looking toward the US and Canada. Also that doesn't count people on islands who may be closer to American territory than any other good option for relocation.
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Old 03-28-2019, 07:06 PM   #12654
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Re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

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"technically" illegal? The law is technical! If it isn't technical then there isn't a law at all. If something is technically legal then it's legal. Period.

Look, I'm not defending Barr, I'm not saying he's honest or a good guy or can be relied on. I'm saying something very simple. If Mueller actually found criminality around the Trump campaign's interactions with Russians, then Barr would be crazy to misrepresent that and say that Mueller found no such criminality. You really think that Mueller would just sit silently while Barr made such a substantial and direct misrepresentation? It seems inconceivable.
The whole point is that this isn't all about the law, it's also about political scandal and right/wrong. Just because people aren't going to jail for something doesn't mean that the public doesn't deserve to know, that it shouldn't impact their electoral chances, that it shouldn't leave them open to impeachment, or that it shouldn't lead to a change in the laws because it's OBVIOUSLY wrong even if it's legal.

If the Mueller report really exonerated him in every sense, and not just in the legal sense, Barr wouldn't be trying to hold it back. It's quite possible, even likely, that the Trump campaign colluded with Russian nationals who are de facto extensions of the Russian government, but that because they aren't officially part of the government and certain transactions didn't take place, it wasn't illegal. It should be, and it should also be impeachable even though that obviously isn't happening at this point.

So Barr could easily say what he said, while the above happened, and he wouldn't be lying.
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Old 03-28-2019, 07:07 PM   #12655
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Re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

Jesus we are so in a simulation!

CNN cuts to a reporter at Trump’s rally and what else would be blaring across the stadium but...

Sympathy for the Devil.

I want the red pill.
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Old 03-28-2019, 07:12 PM   #12656
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Re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

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Keep your hands and feet inside the ride vehicle! Incoming Trumpbot tweet on TRUMP saving the Special Olympics!

Chuds Five Hours Ago: He cut the Special Olympics? Well why should my tax dollars pay for a sideshow that no one cares about? ******s can't play sports; the Special Olympics is just another example of political correctness. MAGA.

Chuds Now: Our President has a great heart. Look at his compassion for the neediest members of our society. MAGA.

ETA: On a recent Chapo, Matt brought up a quote (sorry I can't remember the source) that was like "Conservatism is a mixture of performative cruelty and performative sentimentality." That is a great summary imo.
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Old 03-28-2019, 07:20 PM   #12657
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Re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

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Originally Posted by cuserounder View Post
The whole point is that this isn't all about the law, it's also about political scandal and right/wrong. Just because people aren't going to jail for something doesn't mean that the public doesn't deserve to know, that it shouldn't impact their electoral chances, that it shouldn't leave them open to impeachment, or that it shouldn't lead to a change in the laws because it's OBVIOUSLY wrong even if it's legal.
I think it mostly is about the law. We aren't going to impeach a president if he didn't break the law. But sure, release all evidence of the president's behavior. Absolutely. But others who are not subject to impeachment absolutely should be either charged or nothing about the investigation into them should be released at all.

Quote:
If the Mueller report really exonerated him in every sense, and not just in the legal sense, Barr wouldn't be trying to hold it back. It's quite possible, even likely, that the Trump campaign colluded with Russian nationals who are de facto extensions of the Russian government, but that because they aren't officially part of the government and certain transactions didn't take place, it wasn't illegal. It should be, and it should also be impeachable even though that obviously isn't happening at this point.

So Barr could easily say what he said, while the above happened, and he wouldn't be lying.
Not sure how you'd write a law that would make illegal the sort of collusion that the Trump campaign engaged in with Russians while keeping legal the sort of influence countries like Israel and Saudi Arabia exert on the American political process. Would Netanyahu's speech in the Congress against the wishes of the President and direct lobbying of many American political candidates be permissible under this proposed law?

edit: not saying you think the Saudi, Israeli, and other foreign interference in our elections ought to be legal. Just pointing out that there is some very selective outrage when it comes to Trump and Russia.

Last edited by SenorKeeed; 03-28-2019 at 07:36 PM.
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Old 03-28-2019, 07:26 PM   #12658
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Re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

What sane person says something like "sure, all that bad stuff that Trump did is not ok, but if it isn't provably illegal beyond a reasonable doubt, we just need to ignore it"?

Oh yeah, the same people that voted for him, because well, sure he's a scumbag grifter, but he isn't Hillary!
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Old 03-28-2019, 07:28 PM   #12659
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Re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

Imperial Presidency sucks. We should be able to no-confidence them just for sucking ass. The whole office sucks and we should do it like Switzerland or Rojava.
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Old 03-28-2019, 07:32 PM   #12660
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Re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

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What sane person says something like "sure, all that bad stuff that Trump did is not ok, but if it isn't provably illegal beyond a reasonable doubt, we just need to ignore it"?

Oh yeah, the same people that voted for him, because well, sure he's a scumbag grifter, but he isn't Hillary!
OK, so if after a two year intensive investigation with tremendous resources the Russiagate allegations can't be proven to a high enough standard to indict the folks around Trump, then what do you suggest as the next step?
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Old 03-28-2019, 07:33 PM   #12661
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Re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

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Keep your hands and feet inside the ride vehicle! Incoming Trumpbot tweet on TRUMP saving the Special Olympics!





loooooool “my people”

Say her name you coward. Betsy ****ing DeVos. The ****rag catcher’s mitt who married into the top of America’s biggest pyramid scheme and then parlayed that into a cabinet position for which she’s in no way qualified, to run an agency she knows nothing about. ****ing ghoul. I hate her worse than Trump by a fair margin.
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Old 03-28-2019, 07:51 PM   #12662
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Re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

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OK, so if after a two year intensive investigation with tremendous resources the Russiagate allegations can't be proven to a high enough standard to indict the folks around Trump, then what do you suggest as the next step?
I certainly think making clear that their behavior was "immoral, unethical, unpatriotic, and corrupt," instead of telling everyone else to stfu about it is the least one can do. And challenging Barr on his "theory" that a President cannot be held responsible for obtructing an investigation into such immoral, unethical, unpatriotic and corrupt behavior would be a decent next step. Mueller did not come to that conclusion that there was no criminality from obstruction, Barr as Trump's appointed stooge, came to that conclusion.

Next, you mean indict even more folks around Trump, as his campaign manager, deputy campaign manager, his national security advisor, his personal attorney, and many others have been indicted and convicted of crimes. Not minimizing and downplaying the rampant criminality already exposed by Trump's team would a nice thing for you to consider.

And what is absolutely not okay, not even close to okay, is going on ****ing Fox News and parroting the propaganda coming from Trump's delusional fan base that this has all been one big witch hunt. Something you repeatedly apolgize for, and engage in your own version of on this forum. That is just ****ing shameful.
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Old 03-28-2019, 07:57 PM   #12663
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Re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

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If anyone wants to meet up and go protest this, I'm down to fly to El Paso whenever. If we could get 15-20 people, we could possibly get some news coverage and I'm also down to buy food and water and pass it to them through the fence and dare ICE to arrest us if they try to make us stop.

I'd actually be in for this
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Old 03-28-2019, 07:59 PM   #12664
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Re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

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That **** looks straight out of Scarface's depiction of where Cuban refugees stayed.


Weird that’s the first thing I thought of as well
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Old 03-28-2019, 08:00 PM   #12665
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Re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

Keeeeeeeeeeed: NEED PROPER EVIDENCE!
 
Old 03-28-2019, 08:01 PM   #12666
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Re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

Trump: deductibility ridiculously virtually Legislatively!


edit: 10k post was going to be new free BRM software for SNGs to help simulate variance across multiple stakes and moving up and down (2k post was SwongSim) but wasted on this because f contributing value to a place that threatens this subforum and gives augie his own. Been more and more frequently deleting my own replies to posts asking for help/advice.

Last edited by Max Cut; 03-28-2019 at 08:10 PM.
 
Old 03-28-2019, 08:07 PM   #12667
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Re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

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Originally Posted by SenorKeeed View Post
"technically" illegal? The law is technical! If it isn't technical then there isn't a law at all. If something is technically legal then it's legal. Period.

Look, I'm not defending Barr, I'm not saying he's honest or a good guy or can be relied on. I'm saying something very simple. If Mueller actually found criminality around the Trump campaign's interactions with Russians, then Barr would be crazy to misrepresent that and say that Mueller found no such criminality. You really think that Mueller would just sit silently while Barr made such a substantial and direct misrepresentation? It seems inconceivable.
everything in this timeline was inconceivable 2 years ago
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Old 03-28-2019, 08:09 PM   #12668
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Re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

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If anyone wants to meet up and go protest this, I'm down to fly to El Paso whenever. If we could get 15-20 people, we could possibly get some news coverage and I'm also down to buy food and water and pass it to them through the fence and dare ICE to arrest us if they try to make us stop.



I'm going to wait for Bob Barr's summary of what's going on here
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Old 03-28-2019, 08:25 PM   #12669
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Re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

lol @ engaging keeeeeed
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Old 03-28-2019, 08:34 PM   #12670
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Re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

Y'all should've learned never to engage him or Shuffle from the Deflategate thread. Member when that was the hottest thing to debate? I miss that timeline.
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Old 03-28-2019, 08:35 PM   #12671
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Re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

A panel of federal judges found that I was correct about deflategate fwiw. "Compelling if not overwhelming" evidence that Brady did the deflating, the federal judges ruled.
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Old 03-28-2019, 08:37 PM   #12672
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Re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

Gotta admit Keed and Shuffle were the right & left hand of God in that thread
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Old 03-28-2019, 09:17 PM   #12673
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Old 03-28-2019, 09:18 PM   #12674
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Re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

Sorry about your coming spike in hate crimes, Grand Rapids.
 
Old 03-28-2019, 10:31 PM   #12675
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