Quote:
Originally Posted by SenorKeeed
totally open borders while having a welfare state probably isn't doable though.
ChangeMyMind.jpg
Quote:
Originally Posted by SenorKeeed
Well that's only because they don't get the benefits! If you have Medicare for all, including immigrants, food stamps for any poor person who needs it, including immigrants, etc etc etc, you'd yugely incentivize immigration of low skill labor. And if immigrants don't get such benefits you don't really have open borders OR a welfare state. You have an unlimited guest worker program where anyone is free come and work in the US and possibly starve in the process if things don't work out and they don't make a living wage.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SenorKeeed
Sure. So let's take something that everyone agrees a welfare state ought to have -- Medicare for all. It seems obvious to me that we couldn't offer Medicare for all and extend that to unlimited immigrants. And the cruel other extreme of that is Medicare for all for citizens and allowing unlimited immigrants without a path to citizenship. That's obviously a very unjust and exploitative society. And everything in the middle of that is a too hot/too cold balancing act, where it's not clear that we could legislate a satisfactory equilibrium. One year in the US then getting citizenship is too close to the first untenable scenario, ten years in the US then citizenship is too close to the exploitative second scenario.
Homer: Doh, you're right! If we have a policy of giving everyone a free pony and then open our borders everyone are going to come here and try and get their free pony! Clearly that's unsustainable.
Lisa: But that's specious reasoning, Dad. We don't have a policy of giving everyone a free pony.
Homer: Well yes, Lisa, but...
Lisa: In fact when it comes to health care, the countries that closely border us have cheaper and more accessible health care systems than we do.
Homer: Well sure, but how's the weather?
Lisa: And when it comes to actual free things, Scandinavian countries like Norway and Sweden not only have free health care and free university tuition, but paid parental leave too.
Homer: They do?
Lisa: Sure they do. But I don't see a whole ton of people just picking up and moving there, do you?
Marge: Homer, Maggie needs changed again! My hands are full, will you do it please?
Homer: Hmm paid parental leave. Lisa, how hard is it to learn to speak Scandinavian?