Quote:
Originally Posted by superleeds
Hi Cuse,
1. He ain't taking that deal (as if any of it would be acted on in good faith anyway)
2. There ain't no 2
1. I don't care if he takes it, it makes the Dems look like they're trying to re-open the government while Trump and the GOP look like crybabies. It's win-win. I'm not worried about acting in good faith because we're going to link it all legislatively so it's one whole bill.
DEMS HAVE LEVERAGE WITH AN EXPIRATION DATE. WHEN YOU HAVE LEVERAGE YOU ****ING USE IT, YOU DON'T HOLD IT UNTIL IT EXPIRES.
Quote:
Originally Posted by suzzer99
Some of you are like the "Don't make deals with fish at the final table!" crowd.
Um, but I got 95% of first place money.
"I don't care - don't make deals! You have an edge."
And unlike a poker tournament, that edge is going to evaporate at some point. Dems may not get 50 in the Senate even if they win the White House in 2020 and the House in 2020 and 2022. Even if they get 50 they may not hold their caucus together to pass anything significant. Making a favorable deal here IS using your edge. Saying **** off is more like taking an ICM chop when you have edge and a comfortable bankroll.
Quote:
Originally Posted by +rep_lol
man i like you and respect your take on things generally but this post is hot garbage. i mean that list is pretty lol but for real, trump is gonna agree to abolish ICE? you're an otherwise reasonable guy, so i want some of the drugs you're currently consuming, i haven't tripped in a while. for real, PM me.
I dgaf whether he agrees or not, it's win-win as far as I'm concerned. He may trade ICE for his wall. He'd get to run on the wall again, which is a pretty big thing for him. "Vote for me and we're guaranteed to have another $12 billion to finish the wall, on top of the $8 we already got."
Quote:
Originally Posted by +rep_lol
also dems don't have an "edge", they aren't going to extract concessions out of the GOP just for funding the government
Stop trying to reframe it that way. The Dems are not holding the government hostage, the GOP is. The Dems are not getting concessions for re-opening the government, they're getting concessions for letting Trump out of the corner he just backed the GOP into.
Quote:
Originally Posted by +rep_lol
and if they tried that then the tables would really turn
Not at all. Trump shut the government down. The Dems passed a clean CR and Mitch wouldn't vote on it even though he passed the same thing unanimously in the Senate. These are the facts and they are not disputable.
The Dems are not holding the government hostage, the Dems are simply keeping Trump boxed into the corner he created. At this point they can allow this to end in two ways:
1. Trump eats a huge plate of crow, gives up on the wall funding for now and re-opens the government on a clean CR.
2. They extract painful concessions for wall funding.
Again, because you're not getting it so far. The Dems are NOT holding the government hostage.
Quote:
Originally Posted by +rep_lol
and then there's a legitimate argument that democrats are being unreasonable/obstructing/at fault
LOL.
Quote:
Originally Posted by suzzer99
I think we need to establish some common ground. First of all does anyone argue any of these things is NOT true?- $5B is mostly a symbolic # that will barely break ground on a tiny section of wall
- Trump himself does not care about a wall - only about not pissing off his supporters
- Higher functioning members of Trump's base, and propagandists like Ann Coulter also realize the $5B is mostly symbolic - but approve of the message it sends
- Country Club/moderate suburban Republicans don't care about a wall either way
- Democrats of course realize the $5B is a symbolic win for Trump, which they have the power to deny
- Almost none of Trump's base knows what the border actually looks like right now
- Trump probably can't go to Mar-a-Lago or golf until this is over due to terrible optics (although nothing would shock me)
- The National Parks are very popular
I mostly agree. I think Trump is high on his own supply with regard to Fox and actually wants a wall and thinks it's good, but ultimately doesn't care that much about it just like he doesn't care much about any policy beyond caring about winning and his own personal gains.
I think at this point a lot of Country Club Republicans are not moderates and are racist/dumb/brainwashed enough to want the wall pretty badly. But on some level they are almost as content complaining about not getting the wall as they would be having the wall.
Bolded is so so so so true.