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Old 01-04-2019, 04:56 PM   #1076
Matty Lice
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re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

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Originally Posted by superleeds View Post
I don't really get this. Few trumpkins are overpaying their taxes by thousands. An it's not as if they are even losing it. Won't make a jot of difference to them.
Sure it will. I work w/ a deplorable that doesn't know I hate Trump. She was telling me yesterday how excited she is about getting her tax return. I just casually mentioned the IRS was still gonna collect taxes but not pay them out. She did NOT like that. Lower income people depend on that $200 tax return. It's like a Christmas gift to them.
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Old 01-04-2019, 04:56 PM   #1077
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re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

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Originally Posted by TheHip41 View Post
Get the government running. Then you can talk about compromises.
This is correct. If Trump and the GOP were willing to compromise and make a deal for wall money, they can do that any time. The shutdown is irrelevant. You dont need leverage when negotiating a comprimise. Its not exactly clear who gains leverage from the shutdown anyways. He doesnt want to compromise. He wants his wall. **** him and his stupid ****ing wall.

He is like the canadian in south park who let his country go to **** for some stupid token victory because he doesnt want to look the moron he is. At some point that chinless **** will have to pass a veto proof bill with no wall.
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Old 01-04-2019, 04:57 PM   #1078
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re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

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Originally Posted by cuserounder View Post
Here's the deal guys, Trump is on the verge of handing the Democrats what might be the single greatest opportunity to drive a wedge through the opposition in US politics in my lifetime.

Want 2020 to be the greatest curb stomping since Reagan/Mondale? Split their party in half.

1. Announce that you'll only negotiate with Trump if McConnell promises to put any bill to re-open the government that Nancy and Donald can agree on up for a full vote in the Senate.

2. Get Trump to agree to something that's a non-starter for Senate Republicans.

3. Sit back and enjoy your win-win, because if it passes, as many of us have pointed out, you're getting a huge win trading $5B that will never fully fund the wall for a priority. If it doesn't pass, you've split the GOP in half and the infighting is tremendous for you.

Here's what my take it or leave it final offer would be:
  • Full citizenship for an expanded set of Dreamers (Anyone brought into the US by parents/guardians who was under the age of 18 with no violent criminal record.)
  • Expand legal immigration and temporary work visas
  • A path to citizenship (that takes fewer than 5 years) for all undocumented immigrants in the United States without any violent criminal record
  • Fixing all the stuff they did to undermine the ACA and opting every state into Medicaid expansion.
  • Abolish ICE and no government agency gets to go around and deport non-violent undocumented immigrants anymore, since the ones currently here are becoming citizens and Trump is building his wall to protect the border - anyone who manages to get over the MAGA GREATEST WALL EVER without being detected within 50 miles of the border gets to stay. As of 2016, ICE was spending $3B a year on finding undocumented immigrants for deportation.

for
  • $5B for the wall
  • An additional $3B/yr for the wall starting in 2020 and coming directly out of the former ICE budget


Then obviously if/when you win in 2020, you stop the stupid $3B/yr, but the rest can't be reversed very easily if you lose. And that's my final offer, my opening offer would include a public option for Obamacare - perhaps just allowing people to buy-in to Medicare for the average cost per month of it in premiums based on age or something like that. I'd also include an initial demand for Trump to admit that Mexico wasn't paying for the wall.

But I'd be willing to drop those and take the deal above, and I might even take it without the ACA fix since it's unrelated.

But like the fact that Democrats have all of the leverage here does not mean that their best play is to tell the GOP to shove it up their ass and maintain the status quo. That's giving up tons of political capital that has been bestowed upon you. When you have an edge you press it and get something for it.

Just standing firm on this and letting the government re-open under the status quo would be almost like checking back the winning hand on the river when your opponent showed you his hand after he checked.
man i like you and respect your take on things generally but this post is hot garbage. i mean that list is pretty lol but for real, trump is gonna agree to abolish ICE? you're an otherwise reasonable guy, so i want some of the drugs you're currently consuming, i haven't tripped in a while. for real, PM me.

also dems don't have an "edge", they aren't going to extract concessions out of the GOP just for funding the government and if they tried that then the tables would really turn and then there's a legitimate argument that democrats are being unreasonable/obstructing/at fault

tl;dr - no
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Old 01-04-2019, 04:58 PM   #1079
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re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

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lol dumb mother****er

Steve? I suppose the dude does look like Bannon if you are in final stages of dementia.
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Old 01-04-2019, 04:59 PM   #1080
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re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

For those of you in the **** you crowd, how long do you think passing things like DACA/M4A would take with zero votes from Republicans and the right leaning democrats? You would need 60 progressive senate seats, a house majority and president. I don't see 60 senate seats happening again for a very very long time. Maybe not again in our lifetimes with the structural advantages built in there.

So the only path to getting any of these things passed is either waiting forever or finding favorable compromise (and before Rep comes back in here shouting about CAVING AND DEM COMPROMISE I am not talking about the usual Democrat token compromise that the Republicans later renig on). I mean we have one of the dumbest possible humans in the WH and you don't want to use this as a chance to make favorable deals for our side?

And don't get me wrong I have joked that Chuck and Nancy were going to cave for something dumb and they might still. That being said getting something of actual value is not caving, it is valuable political compromise. It is also potentially of extreme value when it comes to future elections. Not only are you doing something good for people but you are demonstrating YOU CAN DO SOMETHING GOOD FOR PEOPLE. Something the Democrats to date have done very little of in the real world at the federal level. Those of you skeptical I don't even think realize this is a possible positive because the Dems have been so horrid at it historically.
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Old 01-04-2019, 04:59 PM   #1081
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re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

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Really? low/middle income trumpkins are the exact type of person to use the IRS refund as a defacto savings device. I think it took until the later side of my mid 20's to make it so that my refund is pretty close to 0.
Were you really really desperate for it when you did get one? Ever really really worried you wouldn't get it when you filed? Either of these 2 apply to most Trumpkins today?

They'll just put off trading in their coal rolling truck for the newer model off for a bit.
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Old 01-04-2019, 05:00 PM   #1082
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re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

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Originally Posted by Matty Lice View Post
Steve? I suppose the dude does look like Bannon if you are in final stages of dementia.
I assumed Scalise there but who the **** knows
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Old 01-04-2019, 05:01 PM   #1083
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re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

Also just getting the press talking about DACA and whatever other pipe dreams Democrats want is a big win. Make offers you know they can't call and keep dominating the news cycle with it.

Just bring up deal after deal that moderate Republicans might either support or not be completely against, but the racists would hate. Eventually Republicans will start to freak out and want this thing over.
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Old 01-04-2019, 05:02 PM   #1084
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re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

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Originally Posted by superleeds View Post
Were you really really desperate for it when you did get one? Ever really really worried you wouldn't get it when you filed? Either of these 2 apply to most Trumpkins today?

They'll just put off trading in their coal rolling truck for the newer model off for a bit.
90% of the deplorables on Chiefsplanet are suburbanites with decent jobs who probably get a nice fat check every year. They would not like it at all.
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Old 01-04-2019, 05:02 PM   #1085
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re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

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Originally Posted by superleeds View Post
Were you really really desperate for it when you did get one? Ever really really worried you wouldn't get it when you filed? Either of these 2 apply to most Trumpkins today?

They'll just put off trading in their coal rolling truck for the newer model off for a bit.
yes, I was, I was paycheck to paycheck. I think you're underestimating how pissy this'll make people and how dumb NORMAL people generally are with their finances and taxes - now extrapolate that onto the Trumpkin subset.
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Old 01-04-2019, 05:03 PM   #1086
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re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

Also how does Rep not realize by now that literally zero people are saying Trump/Republicans will make these deals. Proposing them alone is good politics. Full stop. If a miracle occurs and the deals happen then it's actual benefit in addition to the political one.

Stop posting the same dumb take that totally ignores what literally 80% of the forum is telling you the real motivation should be for making the offers.
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Old 01-04-2019, 05:04 PM   #1087
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re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

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Originally Posted by Matty Lice View Post
Sure it will. I work w/ a deplorable that doesn't know I hate Trump. She was telling me yesterday how excited she is about getting her tax return. I just casually mentioned the IRS was still gonna collect taxes but not pay them out. She did NOT like that. Lower income people depend on that $200 tax return. It's like a Christmas gift to them.
OK I'm certainly willing to concede I'm wrong about this. Are you sure she realized she would eventually get it? And I just can't see a lot of Trumpkins being this desperate for some pitiful refund.
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Old 01-04-2019, 05:05 PM   #1088
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re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

Many peoples tax refunds are 6-10k when they make $15-30k a year. They are not pitiful from their perspectives and are the single biggest windfall most of them will see in their lives. Google Earned Income Credit to read about how this is possible.

Source: I own a business that sees tax returns for each of my clients and also is heavily seasonal based on middle to low income people getting their tax refunds to pay me.
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Old 01-04-2019, 05:06 PM   #1089
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re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

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Originally Posted by jmakin View Post
yes, I was, I was paycheck to paycheck. I think you're underestimating how pissy this'll make people and how dumb NORMAL people generally are with their finances and taxes - now extrapolate that onto the Trumpkin subset.
Pretty much my whole childhood and early adulthood the accepted wisdom I heard was to claim allowances so you got a fat refund. Most of the logic being you would just spend it on dumb stuff. So instead let the IRS just borrow your money interest free for a year. o_O

I would bet a majority of Trumpkins still think this way.
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Old 01-04-2019, 05:07 PM   #1090
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re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

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Originally Posted by WichitaDM View Post
Also how does Rep not realize by now that literally zero people are saying Trump/Republicans will make these deals. Proposing them alone is good politics. Full stop. If a miracle occurs and the deals happen then it's actual benefit in addition to the political one.

Stop posting the same dumb take that totally ignores what literally 80% of the forum is telling you the real motivation should be for making the offers.
lol no it's not! this whole thing started because trump is making an unreasonable and unpopular demand. if dems try to counter by also making unreasonable demands, then they become just as guilty of obstructing the process and the bothsides'ism continues the same as it ever was
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Old 01-04-2019, 05:08 PM   #1091
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re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

When I made ~$17k/year my refund was about $1500, lol. If your income is less than 30k you would be (with the old way at least) be paying basically 0 income tax and get most of it back at the end of the year. So yea it wouldn't surprise me if people are getting 3-5k back @ $30k/year income if they were moronic or ignorant with the way they set up their deductions.
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Old 01-04-2019, 05:08 PM   #1092
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re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

Grunching the past 1.5 pages (100 ppp) of FAIL ITT.

Cite or Ban anyone claiming Trump is winning the shutdown. Have not seen a poll that come close--just the deplorables and 40% can't win (see 2018 mid-terms).

Lieu is correct. Trump=Terrorist. Open government first. Negotiate second.

Pelosi is boss. Passing the word for word legislation that passed senate by voice vote puts it squarely on McTurtle. Already 2-3 Rs in senate ready to flip. Of course ole Mitch wouldn't even allow a vote, but there are procedural maneuvers?? Send it over every time you have to.

Certainly never take any promise from the Rs. Insane to suggest. (Fool you once shame on them, fool you twice-you're a freakin' idiot that gets what you deserve).

Temp-ban for suggestion senate pass a compromise bill that Trump likes. Senate can't do shot wo Pelosi now.
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Old 01-04-2019, 05:10 PM   #1093
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re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

joe biden wants to cut social security and medicare
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Old 01-04-2019, 05:10 PM   #1094
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re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

Question about tax refunds posed to chiefsplanet: https://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/show...&postcount=416

Not sure if I'll get any useful data.
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Old 01-04-2019, 05:11 PM   #1095
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re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

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Old 01-04-2019, 05:13 PM   #1096
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re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

there are Republican trump slappies in congress, the house especially, who would vote for a wall and definitely sign up for Medicare for All (why has this been adopted over the last year as the goal by posters on this forum? Medicare is a wildly imperfect system too and we should just skip that step to go full fledged single payer universal healthcare where no one owes a penny out of pocket for anything). You probably want to leave immigration reform out of wall negotiations because they're too closely related but you are definitely live to get things like healthcare, Green New Deal (or other climate change legislation), and probably legal marijuana through to Trump and those who will follow him over traditional republican stances if you agree to his biggest non-negotiable which is the wall.
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Old 01-04-2019, 05:15 PM   #1097
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re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

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Originally Posted by WichitaDM View Post
It is also potentially of extreme value when it comes to future elections. Not only are you doing something good for people but you are demonstrating YOU CAN DO SOMETHING GOOD FOR PEOPLE. Something the Democrats to date have done very little of in the real world at the federal level. Those of you skeptical I don't even think realize this is a possible positive because the Dems have been so horrid at it historically.
**** off

Quote:
“The American people should have a voice in the selection of their next Supreme Court Justice. Therefore, this vacancy should not be filled until we have a new president,” McConnell said,
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Old 01-04-2019, 05:17 PM   #1098
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re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

How is someone getting a $6k refund on a salary of $30k a year? Did they pick every single deduction in existence?
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Old 01-04-2019, 05:17 PM   #1099
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re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

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Originally Posted by suzzer99 View Post
Question about tax refunds posed to chiefsplanet: https://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/show...&postcount=416

Not sure if I'll get any useful data.
A lot of it will depend on where you live, but they got rid of deductions with the new tax law and then doubled the standard deduction. Take home pay rose for me by like ~$50 a week I think? But my refund is going to be roughly half of what it usually is (you can get an estimate of your refund here).

Usually I've already done my taxes by now, I use my last check stub of the year rather than waiting for my W2 and then just submit to the IRS once they start accepting them, refund is normally paid out by Feb 1st but obviously won't happen this year if things keep going.
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Old 01-04-2019, 05:19 PM   #1100
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re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

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Originally Posted by synth_floyd View Post
How is someone getting a $6k refund on a salary of $30k a year? Did they pick every single deduction in existence?
If you claimed 0 deductions on your W4 and maybe had extra $ withheld and then got EITC I could see it. Deductions don't matter now though.
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