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Old 01-04-2019, 03:59 PM   #1051
suzzer99
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re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

I thought the House went back and hastily drew one up.

And even if they didn't, they could have and the Senate could have used reconciliation right?
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Old 01-04-2019, 04:00 PM   #1052
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re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

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Old 01-04-2019, 04:02 PM   #1053
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re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

In theory, yes. But I don't know if the GOP had 50 votes for a budget with wall money last week. And didn't they already do a bill via reconciliation? I thought it was limited to once per fiscal year or something like that. I'm not 100% familiar with the specific rules on reconciliation.
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Old 01-04-2019, 04:09 PM   #1054
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re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

Quote:
Originally Posted by suzzer99 View Post
It's not caving if you can get a piece of legislation you've been trying to pass for 20 years out of the deal and make people's lives substantially better in the process. And drive a huge wedge in the middle of the Republican party to boot.
The only way that would pass the sniff test is if the bill was explicitly this for that and nothing else, which isn't going to happen. It would more likely be give in for the promise of future legislation which magically won't happen and Lucy laughs at that blockhead again.
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Old 01-04-2019, 04:10 PM   #1055
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re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

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Originally Posted by +rep_lol View Post
you ****ing idiots. give them $5B, give trump a W to tout on his signature issue/promise, and set terrible precedent just to have something done which they don't really oppose and is already being litigated in courts with favorable outcomes for our side
Nah, surely if you reward Trump once for being a big ****ing baby he'll never, ever use that tactic again because he got 20% of his wall money.
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And even if they didn't, they could have and the Senate could have used reconciliation right?
Reconciled bills get revoted on by the House and Senate, they can't just use it to tack on whatever they want.
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Originally Posted by synth_floyd View Post
In theory, yes. But I don't know if the GOP had 50 votes for a budget with wall money last week. And didn't they already do a bill via reconciliation? I thought it was limited to once per fiscal year or something like that. I'm not 100% familiar with the specific rules on reconciliation.
Once per year and the last time they used it was in 2017 so they're good to try that route, it just won't ever pass the House.
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Old 01-04-2019, 04:14 PM   #1056
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re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

I have no idea wtf people have been spazzing out about today. $5B in exchange for getting something like a path to citizenship or Medicare For All and funding the govt isn’t “caving,” it’s an amazing deal. Obviously I don’t think a deal like that is in the works or at all realistic. Can we find something else to discuss.
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Old 01-04-2019, 04:18 PM   #1057
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re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

because even if we get those you can't assume republicans will be acting in good faith - I mean we already had DACA. They're deconstructing our existing healthcare system piece by piece. Any deal that gets made, even though it would look nice in the short term, would probably be politically damaging and can't be counted on in the long term. I think that's why people are freaking out.

The longer this goes down, no matter how many trendy hashtags and nicknames Trump can come up with, this is way more damaging for the GOP than the democrats. But it's kind of a pyrrhic victory no matter what.
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Old 01-04-2019, 04:23 PM   #1058
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re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

You're arguing against ever doing any legislation at all.
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Old 01-04-2019, 04:27 PM   #1059
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re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

#thisiswhytrumpwon
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Old 01-04-2019, 04:29 PM   #1060
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re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

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Originally Posted by Trolly McTrollson View Post
I have no idea wtf people have been spazzing out about today. $5B in exchange for getting something like a path to citizenship or Medicare For All and funding the govt isnít ďcaving,Ē itís an amazing deal. Obviously I donít think a deal like that is in the works or at all realistic. Can we find something else to discuss.


For the 100th time today

You arenít getting any of those things


Also. **** giving $1 to trumps racist vanity wall.
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Old 01-04-2019, 04:30 PM   #1061
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re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

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Originally Posted by suzzer99 View Post
You're arguing against ever doing any legislation at all.


I am arguing against doing legislation with someone holding federal workers hostage


Get the government running. Then you can talk about compromises.
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Old 01-04-2019, 04:33 PM   #1062
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re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

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Originally Posted by TheHip41 View Post
For the 100th time today

You arenít getting any of those things.
Did you see the part where I acknowledged that this kind of deal wasnít realistically going to happen? WTF is the disagreement here.
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Old 01-04-2019, 04:34 PM   #1063
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re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

Here's the deal guys, Trump is on the verge of handing the Democrats what might be the single greatest opportunity to drive a wedge through the opposition in US politics in my lifetime.

Want 2020 to be the greatest curb stomping since Reagan/Mondale? Split their party in half.

1. Announce that you'll only negotiate with Trump if McConnell promises to put any bill to re-open the government that Nancy and Donald can agree on up for a full vote in the Senate.

2. Get Trump to agree to something that's a non-starter for Senate Republicans.

3. Sit back and enjoy your win-win, because if it passes, as many of us have pointed out, you're getting a huge win trading $5B that will never fully fund the wall for a priority. If it doesn't pass, you've split the GOP in half and the infighting is tremendous for you.

Here's what my take it or leave it final offer would be:
  • Full citizenship for an expanded set of Dreamers (Anyone brought into the US by parents/guardians who was under the age of 18 with no violent criminal record.)
  • Expand legal immigration and temporary work visas
  • A path to citizenship (that takes fewer than 5 years) for all undocumented immigrants in the United States without any violent criminal record
  • Fixing all the stuff they did to undermine the ACA and opting every state into Medicaid expansion.
  • Abolish ICE and no government agency gets to go around and deport non-violent undocumented immigrants anymore, since the ones currently here are becoming citizens and Trump is building his wall to protect the border - anyone who manages to get over the MAGA GREATEST WALL EVER without being detected within 50 miles of the border gets to stay. As of 2016, ICE was spending $3B a year on finding undocumented immigrants for deportation.

for
  • $5B for the wall
  • An additional $3B/yr for the wall starting in 2020 and coming directly out of the former ICE budget

Then obviously if/when you win in 2020, you stop the stupid $3B/yr, but the rest can't be reversed very easily if you lose. And that's my final offer, my opening offer would include a public option for Obamacare - perhaps just allowing people to buy-in to Medicare for the average cost per month of it in premiums based on age or something like that. I'd also include an initial demand for Trump to admit that Mexico wasn't paying for the wall.

But I'd be willing to drop those and take the deal above, and I might even take it without the ACA fix since it's unrelated.

But like the fact that Democrats have all of the leverage here does not mean that their best play is to tell the GOP to shove it up their ass and maintain the status quo. That's giving up tons of political capital that has been bestowed upon you. When you have an edge you press it and get something for it.

Just standing firm on this and letting the government re-open under the status quo would be almost like checking back the winning hand on the river when your opponent showed you his hand after he checked.
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Old 01-04-2019, 04:37 PM   #1064
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Old 01-04-2019, 04:44 PM   #1065
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re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheHip41 View Post
For the 100th time today

You arenít getting any of those things


Also. **** giving $1 to trumps racist vanity wall.
Imagine responding to a 3 sentence post without having read the 2nd sentence
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Old 01-04-2019, 04:46 PM   #1066
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re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

I honestly donít think this lasts long. The moment trumps base finds out they will not be receiving their tax refund they will riot.


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Old 01-04-2019, 04:47 PM   #1067
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re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

Hi Cuse,

1. He ain't taking that deal (as if any of it would be acted on in good faith anyway)
2. There ain't no 2
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Old 01-04-2019, 04:48 PM   #1068
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re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

Quote:
Originally Posted by cuserounder View Post
Here's the deal guys, Trump is on the verge of handing the Democrats what might be the single greatest opportunity to drive a wedge through the opposition in US politics in my lifetime.

Want 2020 to be the greatest curb stomping since Reagan/Mondale? Split their party in half.

1. Announce that you'll only negotiate with Trump if McConnell promises to put any bill to re-open the government that Nancy and Donald can agree on up for a full vote in the Senate.

2. Get Trump to agree to something that's a non-starter for Senate Republicans.

3. Sit back and enjoy your win-win, because if it passes, as many of us have pointed out, you're getting a huge win trading $5B that will never fully fund the wall for a priority. If it doesn't pass, you've split the GOP in half and the infighting is tremendous for you.

Here's what my take it or leave it final offer would be:
  • Full citizenship for an expanded set of Dreamers (Anyone brought into the US by parents/guardians who was under the age of 18 with no violent criminal record.)
  • Expand legal immigration and temporary work visas
  • A path to citizenship (that takes fewer than 5 years) for all undocumented immigrants in the United States without any violent criminal record
  • Fixing all the stuff they did to undermine the ACA and opting every state into Medicaid expansion.
  • Abolish ICE and no government agency gets to go around and deport non-violent undocumented immigrants anymore, since the ones currently here are becoming citizens and Trump is building his wall to protect the border - anyone who manages to get over the MAGA GREATEST WALL EVER without being detected within 50 miles of the border gets to stay. As of 2016, ICE was spending $3B a year on finding undocumented immigrants for deportation.

for
  • $5B for the wall
  • An additional $3B/yr for the wall starting in 2020 and coming directly out of the former ICE budget

Then obviously if/when you win in 2020, you stop the stupid $3B/yr, but the rest can't be reversed very easily if you lose. And that's my final offer, my opening offer would include a public option for Obamacare - perhaps just allowing people to buy-in to Medicare for the average cost per month of it in premiums based on age or something like that. I'd also include an initial demand for Trump to admit that Mexico wasn't paying for the wall.

But I'd be willing to drop those and take the deal above, and I might even take it without the ACA fix since it's unrelated.

But like the fact that Democrats have all of the leverage here does not mean that their best play is to tell the GOP to shove it up their ass and maintain the status quo. That's giving up tons of political capital that has been bestowed upon you. When you have an edge you press it and get something for it.

Just standing firm on this and letting the government re-open under the status quo would be almost like checking back the winning hand on the river when your opponent showed you his hand after he checked.
This is more or less the correct strategy. Trump wants his wall and his other policy views aren't so fully formed that he wouldn't be amenable to going with some things that sound outrageous to Republicans to get it.

I would just ask Trump for literally every policy wish you have over the next 2 years no matter how fanciful though.

Like straight up ask for Universal Healthcare full stop as part of it. Then add federal legalization of marijuana. Put the Green New Deal stuff in there along with any climate change measures we could possibly need by 2050 all in there as well.

Trump personally doesn't have healthcare ideology other than "Obamacare bad" and he likely is amenable to the Green New Deal stuff as well because part of it is JOBS. The big factor is will he change his mind after Fox News lays into it.

Republican Senators would never go for it and plenty of establishment dems wouldn't be onboard either, but if you can get it out of the House there might be a path involving the Progressive Caucus and the most staunch Trumpers in the Senate while the moderate dems and mainstream Republicans hold out.
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Old 01-04-2019, 04:49 PM   #1069
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re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

Some of you are like the "Don't make deals with fish at the final table!" crowd.

Um, but I got 95% of first place money.

"I don't care - don't make deals! You have an edge."
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Old 01-04-2019, 04:50 PM   #1070
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re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

Quote:
Originally Posted by riddle777 View Post
I honestly donít think this lasts long. The moment trumps base finds out they will not be receiving their tax refund they will riot.


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I don't really get this. Few trumpkins are overpaying their taxes by thousands. An it's not as if they are even losing it. Won't make a jot of difference to them.
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Old 01-04-2019, 04:51 PM   #1071
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re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

Quote:
Originally Posted by synth_floyd View Post
Shutdown won't go past April. People want their IRS refunds.

Unless they pass a specific bill to fund the IRS and not anything else.
Refunds donít come out in April

April is the deadline to file.

You can file end of January and get refund a couple of weeks later
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Old 01-04-2019, 04:51 PM   #1072
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re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

How much wall can they actually build for $5b? It might be worth it to exchange $5b in wall money for $50b or $100b worth of Democratic priorities.
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Old 01-04-2019, 04:53 PM   #1073
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re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

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Originally Posted by superleeds View Post
I don't really get this. Few trumpkins are overpaying their taxes by thousands. An it's not as if they are even losing it. Won't make a jot of difference to them.
Really? low/middle income trumpkins are the exact type of person to use the IRS refund as a defacto savings device. I think it took until the later side of my mid 20's to make it so that my refund is pretty close to 0.
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Old 01-04-2019, 04:54 PM   #1074
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re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

lol dumb mother****er

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Old 01-04-2019, 04:55 PM   #1075
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re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

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Originally Posted by synth_floyd View Post
How much wall can they actually build for $5b? It might be worth it to exchange $5b in wall money for $50b or $100b worth of Democratic priorities.
I could easily picture them pissing $5b away without a single steel slat getting stuck int the ground. It's seriously nothing.
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