The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: Harm to Ongoing Matter - Page 405 - Politics and Economics

Y'all acting like this is some mystery. Anyone who does something I wouldn't/don't want to do--rock climbing, BASE jumping, playing indoor soccer, eating red meat, wearing a MAGA hat or an 8645 shirt in public, going to a club, backpacking through other countries, experimenting with drug that I have not, is taking stupid risks regardless of the math on it. Anything I like to do is worth it cuz you gotta live your life, rite?

Damn straight! Now back to my russian roulette afternoon recreation session.

03-01-2019 , 05:28 PM

#10103

Paul D

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Dec 2011 Posts: 14,689

Quote:

Originally Posted by suzzer99

So out of 800 Americans traveling there a year - they just decided to frame this one kid for some reason? Sure it's possible but it seems a lot more likely that he actually did something.

He definitely was gone from the rest of the group for a couple hours. https://www.gq.com/story/otto-warmbi...age-true-story

But yeah other than that there doesn't seem to be any clarification outside of the obviously ludicrous "confession".

I'm on the side he actually did do something. My point is more that it wouldn't be weird for an autocratic state to stage videos of crimes to bring to show trials considering that and worse stuff really does go on.

03-01-2019 , 05:35 PM

#10104

suzzer99

Save the Cheerleader, Save the World

Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 99,984

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheHip41

The guy in the documentary that was free climbing mountains.

If he fell and died. No sympathy.

a) Sure?

b) Obviously this is something he needs to do too be fulfilled in life.

c) Clearly everyone involved knows the risks and no one is going to cry out at God over the injustice of it all if something happens while free-soloing a 3000' face.

I went hiking last Sat. - hoping to rid my mind of some stuff that was bugging me. Didn't work. For 10 out of 11 hours I obsessed over the stuff I was trying to escape in my brain. Only in the last hour when it was getting dark and I had to hop on rocks back and forth over a raging stream did I focus on something else. Worrying about breaking my ankle and/or taking a nasty fall finally put me in the moment and got me out of my own head.

I can see where for some people extreme adventure is vital to their well-being. Obviously Honhold is a massively extreme case. But he prepared for that thing for 8 years or so, and only undertook it when he felt the risks were tolerably low enough. Obviously still non-zero. But for him the risk of *not* doing it and having it bug him for the rest of his life was probably much worse.

03-01-2019 , 05:37 PM

#10105

DrChesspain

Guest

Posts: n/a

Quote:

Originally Posted by Max Cut

Obama's watch, drink.

03-01-2019 , 05:41 PM

#10106

Namath12

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 55,849

Quote:

Originally Posted by suzzer99

So out of 800 Americans traveling there a year - they just decided to frame this one kid for some reason? Sure it's possible but it seems a lot more likely that he actually did something.

Also "he stole a poster" seems like a really dumb thing to frame him for when there are so many other crimes available from which to choose

03-01-2019 , 05:43 PM

#10107

otatop

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 12,721

Quote:

Originally Posted by suzzer99

Still seems new.

There have been a few threaded tweets but they're still mostly a rarity.

03-01-2019 , 05:45 PM

#10108

ScreaminAsian

For President

Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 33,333

Quote:

Originally Posted by suzzer99

Still seems new.

Nah threaded tweets have been posted on his account since the election. It's for sure staff

03-01-2019 , 05:52 PM

#10109

Namath12

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 55,849

Not sure if slow pony but apparently Donald's Nobel Prize nomination was forged (twice)

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/28/w...mDch3fH7mjSJgA

Quote:

OSLO — The protocol for nominating and choosing recipients of the Nobel Peace Prize is one of the world’s most scrutinized and secretive.

A total of 329 candidates — 217 individuals and 112 organizations — are being considered for this year’s prize, which will be announced in October. The identities of the candidates are kept secret, and indeed, the Norwegian Nobel Committee, which awards the prizes, is forbidden from divulging any information about its deliberations for 50 years, and even then, only for scholarship purposes and at its discretion.

But a wrinkle in this time-honored process — the peace prize was first awarded in 1901 — emerged on Tuesday, when the committee announced that it had uncovered what appeared to be a forged nomination of President Trump for the prize. The matter has been referred to the Oslo police for investigation.

03-01-2019 , 06:03 PM

#10110

WichitaDM

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Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 14,761

Being scared of traveling any place "scarier" than Western Europe, cruises and Mexican beach resorts is one of Americans worst traits. It goes hand in hand with the actual worst trait, racism.

Good posts suzzer, looks like fun.

03-01-2019 , 06:05 PM

#10111

Melkerson

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 11,064

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheHip41

The guy in the documentary that was free climbing mountains.

If he fell and died. No sympathy.

I don't want to speak for anyone else, since it seems everyone has a slightly different take on the matter, but I'd still have sympathy. I also don't think there is anything wrong with pointing out the obvious fact that he knew what he was getting into. I can actually do both at the same time. Amazing, I know.

03-01-2019 , 06:09 PM

#10112

OmgGlutten!

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Aug 2016 Posts: 5,273

That goes along with the insistence of USA #1.

03-01-2019 , 06:20 PM

#10113

crimedopay420

grinder

Join Date: Jan 2014 Posts: 465

Quote:

Originally Posted by feedthabeast

Why does this upset you at this point? I ask myself the same thing every day. It's a feature not a bug. They never argue in good faith but all conservative media outlets are so coordinated that they just deflect and spin things so hard their base can't keep up.

By the time they've flipped sides they've made a big issue out of so many non-issues that the idiots watching Fox don't even remember that these people once "held" the opposite viewpoint. And further the effort is so coordinated that as long as they only consume conservative "news" the fact that they've contradicted themselves never comes up at all.

A perfect example is my former co-worker. I told him Trump borrowed MAGA from Reagan and he has convinced himself that I'm lying. This is a 65 year old guy who is OBSESSED with "politics" and blogs about it EVERY SINGLE DAY.

He also called me a liar for saying Trump is now stealing Hillary's campaign slogan and when I showed him evidence he simply flipped and said its just a good slogan and he should borrow it. If it's the other way? Republican "news" stations would've called for her to be investigated for 3 months straight. It would be plastered everywhere. That's why this Cohen thing was a "waste of time" but 30+ Benghazi hearings later they're still crying foul.

Basically everything went to **** as soon as the fairness doctrine got shredded and Murdoch and Ailes got involved. One side presents real issues and facts and the other side is 100% a coordinated slander and propaganda effort that is passed off as news. Nevermind the amplifying effect of social media where anyone can say anything with next to no repurcussions and olds literally believe and reshare everything they read.

At this point how the **** do we even combat this? People in the Fox News bubble simply don't even see what's actually happening outside of it at all. They have a major blind spot because they're all riled up about they took er jerbs, they took er guns, reverse racism and whatever other racist conspiracy theories they've cooked up this week. It's grifters using identity politics to enrich themselves at the expense of those voting for them and as long as they're able to keep pumping out the bull**** this problem isn't going away.

Good post.

Re: bolded, I think we need to stop coddling old white people so much. They should have to pass a test or something to use social media.

It's good you stopped talking to your family. Just because you're related to someone doesn't mean their racism should be tolerated. Like, if your uncle is a racist, don't spend thanksgiving with him unless you're planning to throw all the mashed potatoes at his face.

I know it hurts to walk away from family, but Trump is the president. It's supposed to be painful

03-01-2019 , 06:40 PM

#10114

Riverman

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 73,135

If not for Anthony Bourdain I would likely be a standard dip**** American traveler.

03-01-2019 , 06:42 PM

#10115

ScreaminAsian

For President

Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 33,333

https://twitter.com/BeschlossDC/stat...79149108187142

03-01-2019 , 06:42 PM

#10116

SuperUberBob

Not interesting enough

Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 48,217

Quote:

Originally Posted by realDonaldTrump

( twitter | raw text )

I have no idea what this is about. Is this something he saw on Fox News because it might as well be a different language to me.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trolly McTrollson

Hot take: I have limited sympathy for these morons who go into extremely dangerous places and behave like idiots. It’s like that dude who wandered off to the Andaman Islands and disappeared. These people don’t deserve to wind up in prison camps or getting speared, but at some point when you play stupid games you win stupid prizes.

Also these companies that organize tours of NK should be sanctioned.

Hotter take: People shouldn't go to North Korea at all. Those companies that organize tours work for the government. Any money you give to them to organize tours goes towards financing a government that starves its own people, seeks to build a nuclear warhead, and is supposedly involved in a number of illicit trades.

Quote:

Originally Posted by feedthabeast

At this point how the **** do we even combat this? People in the Fox News bubble simply don't even see what's actually happening outside of it at all. They have a major blind spot because they're all riled up about they took er jerbs, they took er guns, reverse racism and whatever other racist conspiracy theories they've cooked up this week. It's grifters using identity politics to enrich themselves at the expense of those voting for them and as long as they're able to keep pumping out the bull**** this problem isn't going away.

Honestly, I can't even effectively communicate with deplorables about politics. They are literally talking about news stories that don't exist. They'll say something like, "Did you know..." and then what follows is an absolutely crazy news story that involves a bunch of names of people I never heard of. Of course it comes off of some site that was designed a bunch of Macedonian teenagers and is named liberalssuckcock.com.

When you can't even agree on a set of basic facts, constructive discourse of any kind becomes impossible.

Quote:

Originally Posted by synth_floyd

GQ did a story last year and they said that he likely tried to commit suicide, as the reporting that he was beaten and physically tortured was incorrect and in fact NK has historically gone out of its way to treat foreign prisoners well because they are valuable bargaining chips. But Trump and the US government used the reports of physical torture to put pressure on the regime and the grieving Warmbier family likely went with that excuse as well.

https://www.gq.com/story/otto-warmbi...age-true-story

How? Did he smash his head against a wall hoping to bleed out?

We may never know the true story. Perhaps some guard acted against orders and beat and tortured him anyway.

Quote:

Originally Posted by WichitaDM

Yeah it's pretty ridiculous. Like I get being afraid of violent crime if you're travelling to a war zone or are walking through dangerous neighborhoods by yourself (why you'd do the latter on vacation is beyond me). Otherwise, it's ignorance.

Funny story: Most of my family lives in America and my mother and sisters wanted to meet me somewhere in Europe last summer. I brought up Paris as a possibility but my mother didn't want to go because there were too many Muslims and terror attacks. So she chose to meet me in London instead

03-01-2019 , 06:44 PM

#10117

hobbes9324

veteran

Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 2,872

Quote:

Originally Posted by Melkerson

Agree 100%. Although I dunno if he actually knew what he was getting into, specifically - I'd guess he assumed he'd get yelled at and maybe tossed out of NK.

MM MD

03-01-2019 , 06:52 PM

#10118

Melkerson

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 11,064

Quote:

Originally Posted by hobbes9324

Agree 100%. Although I dunno if he actually knew what he was getting into, specifically - I'd guess he assumed he'd get yelled at and maybe tossed out of NK.

MM MD

The post you quoted was about Honnold not Warmbier.

My feelings about Warmbier are similar, but I wouldn't have worded it quite that way.

03-01-2019 , 06:53 PM

#10119

Louis Cyphre

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 11,025

Quote:

Originally Posted by suzzer99

Warmbler apparently deserves no sympathy because he made a bad call about which state department warnings are no joke and which are probably overblown.

NK is a league of its own. Any traveller who did not know that didn't do his due diligence.

Quote:

Originally Posted by suzzer99

I feel like a lot of you are putting this through the lens of post-Warmbler North Korea. I'd have a ton less sympathy for someone who goes post-Warmbler and THEN does some dumb ****.

In no way was it clear or expected that something that bad would happen to you for taking a poster off a wall in NK pre-Warmbler.

No, the specific "offense" might not have been obvious pre-Warmbier but that is kind of the point. We don't even know what can get one killed in NK. They don't even need a reason.

03-01-2019 , 07:05 PM

#10120

suzzer99

Save the Cheerleader, Save the World

Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 99,984

I'd go to NK over Venezuela in a heartbeat right now. This is based on direct reports from Venezuelans and ex-Venezuelans I met on my trip. It's the only place - including all the gang and cartel areas in Mex/Hon/El S/Guat the state dept warns about - that everyone just flat out said no, do not go there.

The list I posted showed only one other detained American held that wasn't preaching, reporting or trying to undermine the NK govt. And that was a Korean War vet who asked his handlers about how to find the ex-comrades he fought the NK govt with. So no, there was not reason to think harmless stupidity could get you in deep deep trouble - before Warmbler.

I found another story of a woman who accidentally brought in a Chinese magazine which had a caricature of KJU. She was detained for an hour and said it was terrifying. But ultimately they took the magazine and let her go. We have no idea how many times something like that happened. Warmbler just hit the perfect circumstance.

Last edited by suzzer99; 03-01-2019 at 07:12 PM.