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Old 03-01-2019, 04:17 PM   #10076
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Re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

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Do we know that he actually stole a poster? I know they said he did and they beat him until he also said he did but that doesn't mean he did when it's NK we're talking about
grunch: there's vid of him taking the poster down off the wall in a hallway
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Old 03-01-2019, 04:18 PM   #10077
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Re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

Sandinista Suzzer itt
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Old 03-01-2019, 04:28 PM   #10078
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Re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

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Warmbler apparently deserves no sympathy because he made a bad call about which state department warnings are no joke and which are probably overblown.

I feel like a lot of you are putting this through the lens of post-Warmbler North Korea. I'd have a ton less sympathy for someone who goes post-Warmbler and THEN does some dumb ****.

In no way was it clear or expected that something that bad would happen to you for taking a poster off a wall in NK pre-Warmbler.
yeah i'm going to go ahead disagree with this take
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Old 03-01-2019, 04:29 PM   #10079
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Re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

By the way the thing that I always tell people who think my trip was super dangerous is that I saw families, with kids, doing the exact same trip - on bicycles.
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Old 03-01-2019, 04:36 PM   #10080
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Re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

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grunch: there's vid of him taking the poster down off the wall in a hallway
There is a blurry video of a figure taking a poster in a hallway in a building. It's impossible to tell if it's Otto in the video or even if the video was taken in the hotel that the incident allegedly took place.

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Old 03-01-2019, 04:40 PM   #10081
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Re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

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I want to be able to want criminals held accountable but also be aware/point out that the victims own actions contributed to their predicament. To me that's not "victim blaming", that's common sense.
Yeah, I'm with you on this point. But for some reason around here, it's verboten by some to even mention anything a victim could have done to reduce his risk.

It doesn't matter how many times you preface it with "Now this doesn't excuse the perp in any way..." or something like that. You're still a dirty victim blamer and you should be ashamed of yourself.
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Old 03-01-2019, 04:40 PM   #10082
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Re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

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yeah i'm going to go ahead disagree with this take


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...in_North_Korea

Here's the full list of US Citizens. Almost everyone on there except Warmbler is a Bible thumper, journalist, or humanitarian trying to subvert the NK govt.

The only other random one is a Korean War vet who was asking his handlers how to get in touch with people he used to fight against the NK govt with. Seems suboptimal.

The Bible guy deliberately left a bible on a toilet in a nightclub trying to spread Jesus to the heathens.

Nothing comes close to as trivial as taking a poster off a wall. Out of 800 or so Americans traveling to NK yearly - that's the full list.

I probably have similar odds of dying on the LA freeways as being detained in NK if I went there once. Still not going. Just saying.
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Old 03-01-2019, 04:43 PM   #10083
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Re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

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Originally Posted by synth_floyd View Post
There is a blurry video of a figure taking a poster in a hallway in a building. It's impossible to tell if it's Otto in the video or even if the video was taken in the hotel that the incident allegedly took place.

I thought I read somewhere he came back from the nightclub and was drinking with the hotel staff - which is how he saw the poster. Then later he came back for it. He confessed to taking it off the wall - which of course doesn't mean anything. But there was also the hotel staff as witnesses that he was in the area earlier. Or something.

It seems weird for NK to pick one random American and make some phony video to frame him - but obviously not out of the realm of possibility.
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Old 03-01-2019, 04:43 PM   #10084
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Re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

I guess there’s a line between being adventurous and being irresponsibly reckless and being a drunk idiot in North Korea sort of crosses that line for me.
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Old 03-01-2019, 04:46 PM   #10085
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Re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

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Originally Posted by suzzer99 View Post


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...in_North_Korea

Here's the full list of US Citizens. Almost everyone on there except Warmbler is a Bible thumper, journalist, or humanitarian trying to subvert the NK govt.

The only other random one is a Korean War vet who was asking his handlers how to get in touch with people he used to fight against the NK govt with. Seems suboptimal.

The Bible guy deliberately left a bible on a toilet in a nightclub trying to spread Jesus to the heathens.

Nothing comes close to as trivial as taking a poster off a wall. Out of 800 or so Americans traveling to NK yearly - that's the full list.

I probably have similar odds of dying on the LA freeways as being detained in NK if I went there once. Still not going. Just saying.
what i'm getting at is i'm not taking things off walls during my trip to PRK. but that's just me.

if someone were to take something off a wall in PRK today or pre-Warmbier i'd expect there life to change for the negative if caught. this is PRK we are talking about right?
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Old 03-01-2019, 04:57 PM   #10086
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Re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

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Originally Posted by Melkerson View Post
Yeah, I'm with you on this point. But for some reason around here, it's verboten by some to even mention anything a victim could have done to reduce his risk.

It doesn't matter how many times you preface it with "Now this doesn't excuse the perp in any way..." or something like that. You're still a dirty victim blamer and you should be ashamed of yourself.
I think it's more in how unevenly and vociferously the standard is applied.

If someone resists arrest and gets killed, the authority-worshippers come out of the woodwork to blame the victim.

If a woman dresses sluttily and gets groped, the MRAs come out of the woodwork to "not blaming the victim, buuuuuut...".

Meanwhile someone who lives in a suburb way out in the sticks and drives 30 miles each way to work hears about someone they know getting robbed in the city and thinks "Welp, that's what you get."

With Warmbler it seems like the people who are scared of their own shadow are coming out of the woodwork to say "See, this is why I never leave the house!"

But of course they do leave the house and probably do plenty of stuff that's just as risky when you multiply it over decades vs. a one time chance at getting detained in NK - in which you still have to get drunk and do something very dumb to actually get in trouble.

And literally Warmbler seems to be the only American ever detained that wasn't trying to spread Christianity or report on or subvert the NK govt.

Anyone who lives in a "gritty" urban neighborhood or drives an hour on the freeway every day, but is scared to go to NK probably isn't evaluating both sets of risks on equal footing.
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Old 03-01-2019, 05:00 PM   #10087
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Re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

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Originally Posted by ligastar View Post
what i'm getting at is i'm not taking things off walls during my trip to PRK. but that's just me.

if someone were to take something off a wall in PRK today or pre-Warmbier i'd expect there life to change for the negative if caught. this is PRK we are talking about right?
Who knows? Maybe little things happen, someone gets detained for a few days and it never makes the news. All we know is every other thing on that list was a lot more serious and intentional.

I'm more arguing against the idea that his dumbest decision was to go to NK in the first place. His dumbest decision by a factor of roughly infinity was to get drunk and try to take the poster off the wall.

If your stance is "well I better not travel anywhere I get in trouble if I do something monumentally stupid, because I don't trust myself not to do anything monumentally stupid" then yeah - stay home for sure.
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Old 03-01-2019, 05:01 PM   #10088
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Re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

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Originally Posted by suzzer99 View Post
I think it's more in how unevenly and vociferously the standard is applied.

If someone resists arrest and gets killed, the authority-worshippers come out of the woodwork to blame the victim.

If a woman dresses sluttily and gets groped, the MRAs come out of the woodwork to "not blaming the victim, buuuuuut...".

Meanwhile someone who lives in a suburb way out in the sticks and drives 30 miles each way to work hears about someone they know getting robbed in the city and thinks "Welp, that's what you get."

With Warmbler it seems like the people who are scared of their own shadow are coming out of the woodwork to say "See, this is why I never leave the house!"

But of course they do leave the house and probably do plenty of stuff that's just as risky when you multiply it over decades vs. a one time chance at getting detained in NK - in which you still have to get drunk and do something very dumb to actually get in trouble.

And literally Warmbler seems to be the only American ever detained that wasn't trying to spread Christianity or report on or subvert the NK govt.

Anyone who lives in a "gritty" urban neighborhood or drives an hour on the freeway every day, but is scared to go to NK probably isn't evaluating both sets of risks on equal footing.
no man. just no.
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Old 03-01-2019, 05:02 PM   #10089
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Re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

Solid point.
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Old 03-01-2019, 05:03 PM   #10090
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Re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

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Originally Posted by synth_floyd View Post
There is a blurry video of a figure taking a poster in a hallway in a building. It's impossible to tell if it's Otto in the video or even if the video was taken in the hotel that the incident allegedly took place.

thx for posting vid. forgot vid wasn't a clear vid. did Warmbier ever say he didn't take the poster off the wall?
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Old 03-01-2019, 05:03 PM   #10091
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Old 03-01-2019, 05:04 PM   #10092
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Old 03-01-2019, 05:06 PM   #10093
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Re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

LOL Trump weighs in and it's on topic.
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Old 03-01-2019, 05:07 PM   #10094
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Re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

TBF Otto is white. So I believe Trump has some modicum of empathy there.

Also Trump has finally learned how to reply to his own tweets. I believe this is a new development?
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Old 03-01-2019, 05:08 PM   #10095
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Re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

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Originally Posted by suzzer99 View Post

It seems weird for NK to pick one random American and make some phony video to frame him - but obviously not out of the realm of possibility.
I don't see how North Koreans staging a video of a guy who was on his last legs when returned to the US is in the realm of weird when we got the Russians knocking off people with polonium. Obviously I don't know if the video is actually real or staged, but there's definite motive for staging it.
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Old 03-01-2019, 05:08 PM   #10096
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Re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

Trump and Otto were very close I know this is hard for Donald
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Old 03-01-2019, 05:15 PM   #10097
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Re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

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I don't see how North Koreans staging a video of a guy who was on his last legs when returned to the US is in the realm of weird when we got the Russians knocking off people with polonium. Obviously I don't know if the video is actually real or staged, but there's definite motive for staging it.
i thought the vid was released at the very beginning of his imprisonment ... no?
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Old 03-01-2019, 05:16 PM   #10098
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Re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

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Trump and Otto were very close I know this is hard for Donald
He loves him. But he knew what he was signing up for.
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Old 03-01-2019, 05:17 PM   #10099
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Re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

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TBF Otto is white. So I believe Trump has some modicum of empathy there.

Also Trump has finally learned how to reply to his own tweets. I believe this is a new development?
Nah, thatís just a clue that a staffer is using his account.
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Old 03-01-2019, 05:20 PM   #10100
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Re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

Obama's watch, drink.
 

 
      

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