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Old 03-01-2019, 01:59 PM   #10051
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Re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

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Originally Posted by Trolly McTrollson View Post
I’m obviously not saying he deserved it, just that I’m not too upset when recklessly irresponsible people get into trouble.

Also I wonder if his parents learned their lesson after they let Trump use them as props.
I'm almost never very upset about the deaths of strangers. Maybe I'm a monster. I sometimes read the obituaries just out of curiosity to see how old people are making it, and how often dudes my age are dropping dead of heart attacks. I'll feel something if there's a kid in there, but otherwise...meh.

I don't feel like wagging my finger at them though, even if they were fat, smoked, liked to fly in single engine planes, rode motorcycles, were heroin addicts, had stds or went on a tour of NK.
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Old 03-01-2019, 02:12 PM   #10052
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Re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

Hey guise, I saw a video of the Glendale police pulling down the shorts and tasing a handcuffed innocent man in the testicles while another officer knelt on his back in front of his wailing kids after he "resisted" being dragged from the car while he was seatbelted. On video. Cop still on duty. I'd be careful traveling there, as well.

Quote:
Abuse of Force: Body camera video shows man tased 11 times by officers in Arizona
On July 27, 2017, Johnny Wheatcroft was a passenger in a silver Ford Taurus when a pair of Glendale, Arizona,

police officers pulled in front them in a Motel 6 parking lot.

The stop was for an alleged turn signal violation.

Minutes later, Wheatcroft was handcuffed lying face down on the hot asphalt on a 108-degree day. He'd already been tased 10 times, with one officer kneeling on his back as another, Officer Matt Schneider, kicked him in the groin and pulled down his athletic shorts to tase him a final time in his testicles, according to a federal lawsuit and body camera footage obtained by Scripps sister station KNXV-TV.

The scene was witnessed by his 11- and 6-year-old sons.
https://www.kgun9.com/news/national/...JLsPFawL6P2rtE
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Old 03-01-2019, 02:20 PM   #10053
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Re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

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Originally Posted by Namath12 View Post
Do we know that he actually stole a poster? I know they said he did and they beat him until he also said he did but that doesn't mean he did when it's NK we're talking about
Apparently all he did was take poster if off the wall, the abandoned it when he realized it was too big to take.

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Originally Posted by TheHip41 View Post
That’s why you don’t go to NK.

Sure it sucks he died. But it’s his own fault.

Kidnapped and killed by a brutal dictator. Color me shocked.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LFS View Post
I want to be able to want criminals held accountable but also be aware/point out that the victims own actions contributed to their predicament. To me that's not "victim blaming", that's common sense.
Yeah that's super obvious now. But at the time the worst thing that I had heard of was some missionary who deliberately left behind a bible in a bathroom stall. Others were stuff like Lisa Ling's sister walking across a frozen river from China definitely up to some kind of journalism or smuggling in/out stuff.

So I don't think anyone thought a punishment for taking a poster off the wall could possibly be this severe - until it happened. I think he got unlucky that a) NK was looking for a bargaining chip at the time and b) apparently these posters are some super-sacred thing in NK protected by severe penalties.

Also there are a lot of countries with scary state department warnings, where Americans can't always go directly - like Cuba, Tibet, Iran, half of Africa. But you get close and someone is offering an organized tour that seems safe enough. If you read the state department warnings about everywhere I went on my Mexico-Central America trip you'd be pretty sure something equally bad is going to happen. But then you get there and it's no big deal. I can see how someone might not take them as seriously. Obviously all that changed with Warmbler.

I thought about going to NK for a while - just for the experience. Mainly my phobia about awkward situations with my handlers kept me out - not fear of getting in trouble. I'm pretty sure I wouldn't be stupid enough to get drunk and take a poster off the wall.

But could 22-year-old suzzer conceivably do something that stupid? Yup. Think how cool that would look on your wall and the endless times you could tell the story to amazed guests. Come on suzzer don't be a pussy, what's the worst that could happen? Actually no, playing this out in my mind I really don't think I could be that dumb even drunk, and even 22. I would assume they might hold me for a few weeks which would absolutely suck = not worth it. But I have sympathy nonetheless as it's still a close call for 22-year-old drunk suzzer.

Well then again 33-year-old drunk suzzer walked both ways across the Mexican border with a baggy of blow in his pocket. So yeah - I'd be capable.

Last edited by suzzer99; 03-01-2019 at 02:46 PM.
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Old 03-01-2019, 02:22 PM   #10054
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Re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

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Originally Posted by microbet View Post
Suzzer went to Nicaragua. I guess he just deserves a moderate beating.
Mexico, Honduras, Guatemala, El Salvador all have much more violent crime than Nicaragua.
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Old 03-01-2019, 02:25 PM   #10055
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Re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

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Originally Posted by suzzer99 View Post
Mexico, Honduras, Guatemala, El Salvador all have much more violent crime than Nicaragua.
I meant Nicaragua more for what was going on politically.
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Old 03-01-2019, 02:25 PM   #10056
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Re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

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Career staffers, however, say the atmosphere was ugly. In those early weeks, they said, their every move was viewed with suspicion from a new leadership prone to believing a “deep state” was out to undermine Trump.

In a particularly telling example, one former NSC staffer recalled informing a Trump political appointee that the administration should re-think a proposed executive order because it could undercut efforts to protect human rights. “I said, 'This could make the president look really bad,’” the former staffer told POLITICO. The political appointee replied: “The president doesn’t care about the things you care about, and the sooner that you know about it, the better.”
To be fair, that's probably right and human rights certainly isn't on that list

Quote:
One Trump appointee, conservative commentator Sebastian Gorka, would show up at random meetings, even though it was never clear whether he had the proper security clearance, and he would often raise unrelated points. One former White House official recalled Gorka saying such things as, “‘If you look at what Napoleon did ...’ and we’d all be like, ‘I don’t even know how to respond to that.’” (Asked for comment, Gorka told a POLITICO reporter, “Take a long run off a short pier, you utter hack.”)
GOOOORRRKKKAAA!!!

https://www.politico.com/magazine/st...council-225442
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Old 03-01-2019, 02:27 PM   #10057
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Re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

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Originally Posted by TheHip41 View Post
Thatís why you donít go to NK.

Sure it sucks he died. But itís his own fault.

Kidnapped and killed by a brutal dictator. Color me shocked.
Yeah that is a lesson imparted upon me early on. You canít travel and pretend like the legal system is the same. A privileged white kid in America is going to be treated differently than when in the Phillipenes.

Different parts of the world have different views on different crimes by different people. I think some people think going to foreign countries is like playing a video game.

Going to North Korea as an American in any of our lifetimes is just a stupid move where death and injury are legitimate outcomes. So unless one is well studied and well connected you are running serious risks. Canít really clutch pearls when people take extreme risks with their own life. Doesnít make what NK did right but that is kind of the whole point.
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Old 03-01-2019, 02:29 PM   #10058
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Re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

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Originally Posted by microbet View Post
You're referring to the guy who stole a poster at a hotel as a criminal? I'm not saying that isn't some kind of crime, but really?

But I guess that doesn't even matter to a lot of people. Seems like people think he deserved to be beaten to death just for going to NK.
Nobody thinks he deserved to die but we also donít think he deserves sympathy.
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Old 03-01-2019, 02:30 PM   #10059
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Re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

NK is like an order of magnitude more dangerous for American tourists than Honduras.


A few weeks ago I posted a story about some Libertarian morons who moved to Mexico and tried setting up a grow-op in cartel territory. That’s another example of dumbasses I have limited sympathy for.
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Old 03-01-2019, 02:31 PM   #10060
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Re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

I would add about a dozen countries to the list of ďnot going thereĒ

I would love to see Russia. Well. Itís just not going to happen.
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Old 03-01-2019, 02:39 PM   #10061
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Re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

don't leave your house
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Old 03-01-2019, 02:41 PM   #10062
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Re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

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Originally Posted by Trolly McTrollson View Post
NK is like an order of magnitude more dangerous for American tourists than Honduras.
And Honduras is like an order of magnitude more dangerous than Spain, which is like an order of magnitude more dangerous than Japan. No one is expecting you to break down in tears, but what you're doing is not like neutral about his death.
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Old 03-01-2019, 02:50 PM   #10063
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Re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

Warmbler apparently deserves no sympathy because he made a bad call about which state department warnings are no joke and which are probably overblown.

I feel like a lot of you are putting this through the lens of post-Warmbler North Korea. I'd have a ton less sympathy for someone who goes post-Warmbler and THEN does some dumb ****.

In no way was it clear or expected that something that bad would happen to you for taking a poster off a wall in NK pre-Warmbler.
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Old 03-01-2019, 02:52 PM   #10064
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Re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

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Originally Posted by Johnny Truant View Post
Hey guise, I saw a video of the Glendale police pulling down the shorts and tasing a handcuffed innocent man in the testicles while another officer knelt on his back in front of his wailing kids after he "resisted" being dragged from the car while he was seatbelted. On video. Cop still on duty. I'd be careful traveling there, as well.



https://www.kgun9.com/news/national/...JLsPFawL6P2rtE
The officer tells him, ďIf youíre a passenger in a vehicle, you need to have ID.Ē And if Wheatcroft doesnít provide it, Schneider says, ďI can take you down to the station and we can fingerprint you.Ē
Ridiculous.
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Old 03-01-2019, 02:55 PM   #10065
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Re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

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Originally Posted by suzzer99 View Post
Warmbler apparently deserves no sympathy because he made a bad call about which state department warnings are no joke and which are probably overblown.

I feel like a lot of you are putting this through the lens of post-Warmbler North Korea. I'd have a ton less sympathy for someone who goes post-Warmbler and THEN does some dumb ****.

In no way was it clear or expected that something that bad would happen to you for taking a poster off a wall in NK pre-Warmbler.
I think there's something going on here that doesn't have much to do really with NK. I expect most of the "I have no sympathy" people also vocally had no sympathy for the Into the Wild kid. And that doesn't mean they have no sympathy for every dangerous thing or other people who bring harm on themselves like drug addicts or suicides.
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Old 03-01-2019, 02:57 PM   #10066
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Re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

You can't have an adventure w/o some risk. For some of us life without some adventure is a miserable thought.
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Old 03-01-2019, 03:01 PM   #10067
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Re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

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Originally Posted by suzzer99 View Post
Warmbler apparently deserves no sympathy because he made a bad call about which state department warnings are no joke and which are probably overblown.

I feel like a lot of you are putting this through the lens of post-Warmbler North Korea. I'd have a ton less sympathy for someone who goes post-Warmbler and THEN does some dumb ****.

In no way was it clear or expected that something that bad would happen to you for taking a poster off a wall in NK pre-Warmbler.
You drove into Nicaragua during a period of unrest that had a real possibility of becoming much more violent. I really don't see how you wouldn't have fit into the category of not deserving sympathy around here. That's not the way I feel obv. I think it was awesome and you rule and most people, including myself at least up to this point, are lame by comparison.
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Old 03-01-2019, 03:01 PM   #10068
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Re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

This story happened post Warmbier arrest and might be the most stupid thing I have ever seen someone attempt.

Quote:
TWO Brisbane larrikins say they gatecrashed a North Korean golf tournament by tricking officials into believing they were two of Australia’s top athletes.

Mates Morgan Ruig and Evan Shay, both 28, were in China when they decided on a whim to compete in North Korea’s annual golf championships.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&sour...51553043092473
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Old 03-01-2019, 03:03 PM   #10069
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Re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

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Originally Posted by suzzer99 View Post
You can't have an adventure w/o some risk. For some of us life without some adventure is a miserable thought.
I like to pose the question to people about what they want from life, adventure or comfort. The answer comes back about split. A lot of people do pick adventure. But, almost everyone lives their life as if comfort is their goal.
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Old 03-01-2019, 03:04 PM   #10070
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Re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

In no way was it clear or expected that something that bad would happen to you for taking a poster off a wall in NK pre-Warmbler.[/QUOTE]

Meh. A glance at Wikipeidia shows a list of 18 US citizens grabbed and held by NK for various reasons. I'd guess the chance of something evil happening to you in a NK prison are significantly non-zero.

I'm not hating on the kid - in my line of work I have always thought that the true diagnosis for about 60% of my patients should be "Seemed like a good idea at the time". People do all sorts of stupid **** and the vast majority of the time nothing happens. We'll never know the full story, but I'd bet it was a series of unlikely things that strung together that ended up with him being screwed up so badly. To quote William Munny "Deserve's got nothing to do with it".

MM MD
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Old 03-01-2019, 03:27 PM   #10071
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Re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

I think he does deserve sympathy. He was a young guy who made a dumb mistake.
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Old 03-01-2019, 03:44 PM   #10072
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Re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

The point is its a heinous murder that should never happen anywhere and Trump is throwing shade to the guy responsible...the same way he did with MBS and Putin. And what's more insulting is he says he wants North Korea to have a booming economy. Of course he says that would first require denuclearization, but Trump doesn't say they would need to change their human rights policies.
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Old 03-01-2019, 03:49 PM   #10073
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Re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

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Originally Posted by ScreaminAsian View Post
Found my favorite

Quote:
Originally Posted by ScreaminAsian View Post
https://twitter.com/cnn/status/1025083837825671169
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Old 03-01-2019, 03:58 PM   #10074
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Re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

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Hey guise, I saw a video of the Glendale police pulling down the shorts and tasing a handcuffed innocent man in the testicles while another officer knelt on his back in front of his wailing kids after he "resisted" being dragged from the car while he was seatbelted. On video. Cop still on duty. I'd be careful traveling there, as well.



https://www.kgun9.com/news/national/...JLsPFawL6P2rtE
Holy ****ing ****. This guy should own Glendale after this lawsuit is over.

I don't know what's the most shocking/horrifying thing. Actually let me rephrase, none of it is shocking. I don't know what's more horrifying:

1. They tased a man in the testicles while he was already face down, handcuffed, with another officer kneeling on his back.

2. The offending officer only got a three day suspension.

3. The Glendale PD statement on the incident after internal affairs was done fully contradicted the internal affairs report. They claimed he resisted, internal affairs found that he did not.
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Old 03-01-2019, 04:04 PM   #10075
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Re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

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Originally Posted by microbet View Post
You drove into Nicaragua during a period of unrest that had a real possibility of becoming much more violent. I really don't see how you wouldn't have fit into the category of not deserving sympathy around here. That's not the way I feel obv. I think it was awesome and you rule and most people, including myself at least up to this point, are lame by comparison.
Not arguing but just in case anyone is interested in the details of the situation - Nicaragua overall has a valid reputation as the safest country in Central America. They are by far the poorest country too, but the people seem very proud of not resorting to thievery. I went in after the first flare-up had died down and everyone was saying it was fine for tourists again - but of course I knew there was a risk that things got crazy again while I was there.

No one has guns except the police and the Sandinista Youth - who were acting as sort of the dirty jobs/thug wing - pulling agent provocateur stuff and random violence. Apparently you get free college for being in the Sandanista Youth. The biggest weapons the opposition has are some homemade things that seem like an M-80 on a beefed up bottle rocket - which admittedly would suck if it went off in your face but would do nothing to my car.

All the protesters I saw were a mix of farmers and students. They actually asked if I was a Contra at one point. A big theme I heard from locals was hoping the US would get involved again. So they were pretty nice to Americans overall. Their primary concern seemed to be checking to make sure I wasn't smuggling any people out in my rooftop carrier. Maybe someone they were looking for. They didn't search anything too small to fit a person.

Not that I always felt 100% safe. I spent one night at an illegal roadblock and got a lot of stares. Something told me being a gringo in a fancy car for days in a completely lawless situation like that might not be the best idea. Also it was hot and I couldn't idle with the AC on forever. So I drove a few hours back to a hotel in Bluefields on the east coast that became my little haven for a week.

When I finally got through the 4 roadblocks it was tense but at no time did I feel in real danger or that they would steal anything. My biggest fear is they wouldn't let me through. I had beer, water, vodka, soda, extra gasoline and money to offer as potential bribes. But no one ever asked for one. So once they would let me through I'd get out and hand out a bunch of ice cold beer - which was a huge hit and sent out a giant roar throughout the road block.



Finally by the third roadblock, after giving out the beer, I got the nerve to ask for a picture. The farmers didn't seem to mind their picture taken at all. The students always had bandanas covering their faces. The white dude is one of two backpackers I picked up along the way who were stranded in between roadblocks. They connected with me that morning through the Pan-Am traveller's group on FB. There were definitely surprised to see me show up at their hostel. They managed to get packed in about 5 minutes.

Last edited by suzzer99; 03-01-2019 at 04:28 PM.
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