I'm assuming it's an attempt to fight back at all the young progressives that were just elected.

But **** it, seems like a good idea. Wonder what the loopholes will be.

The border wall is the biggest win Trump could ever have??? I mean 5b isn't enough to build it anyways but even assuming it was how is it a political win? It polls at like 38% and he would be responsible for it. Normally being responsible for unpopular legislation is politically damaging not a win.

we're not trying to win over the derposphere so who cares what they think? like i said before, play the ****ing tape on repeat. the wall is unpopular, go **** yourself.

also just because the GOP operates in bad faith doesn't mean they are necessarily irrational so idk what the **** you're going on about like you're scoring some points here (edit: they're totally 100% rational- their goal is to **** you)

and yes the border wall is the biggest win he could ever have, after the unpopular tax reform what else is he gonna do? it's the signature promise of his campaign ffs

Of course wheatrich does. He said he thinks that without border control most of the people crossing would be gang members.

The way i know rep is wrong is that we all know the dems are going to cave and give trump some or most of his 5b for the wall and likely get nothing in return. That's the world we live in whether we like it or not.

PROMISES MADE, PROMISES KEPT, THANKS TO ME AND MY EXPERT DEALMAKING ABILITIES I GOT THOSE SPINELESS DEMS TO CAVE AND PONY UP FOR MY SIGNATURE ACHIEVEMENT

yea that message is sooooooooo much better than "obstructionist dems meow chow"

Sure seems like the Dems are short on leverage here. Trump is irrational and gives zero ****s if govt services get suspended and federal employees have to donate plasma to make rent. Not many people are blaming Senate Republicans, so McConnel isn’t under pressure to whip up votes for a veto-proof funding bill. It looks like a real stalemate to me, at least until the Rs decide it’s hurting their brand image enough to defy Trump.

I don't think anyone is seriously suggesting that we should trade a wall for pinky swears.

how else does it work, you pass a budget with appropriations for wall money and then what?

you cant just magically write M4A legislation into it

I'm with rep here. Just keep proposing reasonable sensible stuff but no ****ing wall. This is a battle the dems will win because nobody at this stage is changing their mind about whether the wall is a good idea or not. And the not good idea wing is far bigger. The only way they can **** it up is by proposing stupid stuff then Trump will have his obstructionist stick to hit them with.

10 miles of carpool lane in LA cost $1.1B and took almost a decade.

A 2000 mile wall through rough terrain would cost an astronomical amount when all the contractors have had their turn at the trough.

Not to mention all the new CBP employees we'll have to hire to protect the wall, we already have 62,000+ employees and spend $13.5 billion a year on those.

Yes, but Ted Lieu is correct: we can't cede anything in a hostage negotiation or else it will just keep happening. The correct play is to frame the situation as Trump taking the government hostage and making demands rather than this being some sort of negotiation, and say that we'll negotiate once the government is open. Once open, negotiate with Trump for wall funding conditional upon major progressive wins (path to citizenship, M4A, Green New Deal, etc.). If the progressive priority is a large enough win compared to the wall, then it doesn't matter if the Senate agrees or not. Either we get a big win in exchange for a useless monument, or else the Senate and Trump both tank their approval ratings (Trump's with the donor class for talking about giving bread to the plebes, the Senate's with the rubes for disagreeing with Trump and denying the wall).

$5B for DACA is totally worth it, and if it keeps happening to that much success - woo hoo!

Moderate suburban Rs don't really give a **** about the wall either way - they just want status quo and FoxNews flattery. Eventually this could drive a wedge between them and the frothy base (which is already started to some degree). But it seems like it would have to drag on for a painfully long time.

So we’re stuck waiting for McConnel to give in. And I think he’s happy to sweat it out and let Trump take the blame for quite a while. I don’t see this resolving quickly.

I agree that it will be long and drawn out, but I also don't think that McConnell says to keep the shutdown going if Trump says it should end.

flakes of snow

Are there a lot of contractors waiting to take a crack at this? The wall building biz probably ain't what it used to be. Shouldn't the Dems at least demand to see the pre-construction plans and real cost estimates. And good luck trying to build a wall along the Mexican border without using the labor of illegal Mexican immigrants.

If the Dems can't out-negotiate one of the dumbest, worst negotiators of all time it can only be because they ultimately don't want to. That it's not in the interests of their corporate donors for the to win convincingly (or even to win at all). Because that would mean they may be held to account to implement popular anti-corporate policies.

It's true, though, that the Senate is pretty happy with nothing happening. Those villains got just about all they could ever hope to get, getting a massive tax cut through, some villainous judges, etc. They came a vote shy on Obamacare, but they at least got the mandate repeal. They'd be perfectly fine just confirming whatever judges and cabinet appointees need replacing and doing no actual legislating for a couple years, outside of major crises. So, yeah, they don't mind the shutdown, but also, they don't really need the shutdown to keep going in order to further that agenda. Their only interest in maintaining the shutdown would be to delay the House from actually starting to do things.

We have less leverage over Trump than Mitch. He’s an irrational actor and more than willing to piss everyone off to shore up his base. In fact, holding out for a wall might be his best play.

What? It's the biggest boondoggle in the world. Everyone, including Trump, knows it won't get built. Just build one shiny section, big enough for photo ops, and the base will eat it up.

Trump will say at least he tried and Dems blocked him from finishing the glorious thing - but in a way it really is finished - look at it! We built a wall. Promises kept.

Contractors will line up for that gravy train.

See! We promised to not use foul language and promise kept!

What about the head of your party being a crude dipsh*t?

We told him he couldn't do it anymore, and you know what? I think it worked.

The Dems are short on leverage because about half the Dems, politicians and the general population, are border hawks and want less immigration generally. Even in a presentation designed to show how much different Dems are:

56% of dems want to fine you for hiring an undocumented migrant
20% of dems want to ban travel from certain Muslim-majority countries
16% want to build THE WALL
28% want to end CHAIN MIGRATION
11% want "Separating families who cross the border illegally as a deterrent"

https://www.npr.org/2018/07/16/62884...-trumps-agenda

If you look for polls where people obviously wanted worse seeming answers (it's in how the questions are phrased) you'll find worse numbers for democrats.