The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: Harm to Ongoing Matter - Page 338 - Politics and Economics

Well Clovis8 must not be all that sure about his Trump prostignations vis a vis Kissinger:

This isn't nearly as large as his usual bet size:

Please remember to wager responsibly!

LOL the elderly Ikes-wannabe went to so much trouble and no one cared. Sad!

02-19-2019 , 07:32 PM

#8429

smacc25

veteran

Join Date: Dec 2014 Posts: 2,969

Is 2+2 crashing today for anyone else? I've had server issues in the last 2 hours and it won't load or crashes... It just crashed 2 min ago again lol

02-19-2019 , 07:37 PM

#8430

AllTheCheese

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 11,898

Quote:

Originally Posted by smacc25

Is 2+2 crashing today for anyone else? I've had server issues in the last 2 hours and it won't load or crashes... It just crashed 2 min ago again lol

I had the same like an hour ago.

02-19-2019 , 07:42 PM

#8431

smacc25

veteran

Join Date: Dec 2014 Posts: 2,969

Quote:

Originally Posted by AllTheCheese

I had the same like an hour ago.

Mine started around 2 hours ago.. Site still slow for me thou. Thanks.

02-19-2019 , 08:08 PM

#8432

chezlaw

Limey Bastard

Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 46,848

Quote:

Originally Posted by markksman

Because we know people that age? When my dad was 72 and suffering from extreme Alzheimer’s he still would have crushed trump in most areas on most subjects.

Stop pretending like trump is not astronomically more stupid than average anything.

Trump would be favorite even if he is well below average intelligence.

02-19-2019 , 08:10 PM

#8433

chezlaw

Limey Bastard

Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 46,848

Quote:

Originally Posted by smacc25

Is 2+2 crashing today for anyone else? I've had server issues in the last 2 hours and it won't load or crashes... It just crashed 2 min ago again lol

Yes in last few hours but seems to be ok now

02-19-2019 , 09:42 PM

#8434

ChrisV

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Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 40,336

Here's an article from Barbara McQuade, a former prosecutor, on recent Mueller revelations buried in a technical filing. This filing was already highlighted in a tweet posted ITT, but I feel like a lot of people breezed over it. McQuade writes:

Quote:

One detail in the new filing jumps out. It says “the government obtained and executed dozens of search warrants on various accounts used to facilitate the transfer of stolen documents for release, as well as to discuss the timing and promotion of their release. Several of those search warrants were executed on accounts that contained Stone’s communications with Guccifer 2.0 and with Organization 1.”

Quote:

Referring to these communications as “evidence” suggests that the special counsel considers the communications probative and relevant to proving Stone’s guilt. Whatever these communications are, we can reasonably conclude that they are incriminating.

Bolded: That is, Mueller is now asserting that Stone spoke to BOTH agents of the Russian government responsible for hacking emails and to Wikileaks (Organization 1).

Underlined: McQuade continues:

Quote:

Third, the phrase “to discuss the timing and promotion of their release” emphasizes that Mueller considers the conspiracy with which he has charged the Russian intelligence officers to include not just hacking and stealing emails, but also disseminating them. The GRU indictment provides a framework for adding as co-conspirators anyone else who conspired to promote the release of the stolen emails at a time that would be most beneficial to Trump’s campaign.

In fact, one batch of emails was released about an hour after news broke about the "Access Hollywood" tape in which Trump was heard disparaging women. If someone from the campaign suggested to WikiLeaks that stolen emails be released that day, that person could potentially be charged as a co-conspirator in the GRU case.

Recall that the Stone indictment said both that Stone had told a campaign official that "[Wikileaks] will release a load every week going forward". Also that "Shortly after Organization 1’s release, an associate of the high-ranking Trump Campaign official sent a text message to STONE that read ‘well done.'" (from the indictment).

What I'm trying to say is YES COLLUSION. Whether Trump himself authorized this we don't know and may never know. But that Russia, agents of the campaign and Wikileaks coordinated with each other to time releases of stolen documents in a way which was beneficial to the Trump campaign, Mueller now claims to be able to establish that as fact with the information he has.

A note of caution from the indictment:

Quote:

Also on or about October 3, 2016, STONE received an email from a reporter who had connections to a high-ranking Trump Campaign official that asked, ‘[the head of Organization 1] — what’s he got? Hope it’s good.’ STONE responded in part, ‘It is. I’d tell [the high-ranking Trump Campaign official] but he doesn’t call me back.

This suggests that this might have been a bit of a sideline in the campaign. All this stuff seems important to us now, in our context, but during the campaign, senior campaign officials probably had more important things to do. They probably threw Stone at this because he was expendable and not useful for anything else.

02-19-2019 , 09:44 PM

#8435

ChrisV

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I'm excerpting most of the article now, but McQuade believes that Mueller may be holding back on conspiracy charges against Stone (because given the revelations in the filing it seems like Stone should be hit with the same conspiracy charges as the Russians):

Quote:

When I served as a prosecutor, we sometimes strategically waited before charging every crime we believed we could prove. Mueller may be doing the same here for a number of reasons.

First, Mueller might want to avoid tipping off other targets until he has been able to gather all of the evidence against them. Second, by charging only the seven counts in the Stone indictment, Mueller doesn't have to produce to Stone discovery or evidence of other crimes while he continues to investigate the roles of other targets. Court rules would require such disclosure of charged crimes. And third, by holding back more serious crimes, Mueller has leverage over Stone to offer a plea and cooperation deal that is less severe than it would be if more crimes were charged.

If that's the case, then a superseding indictment with more charges, and maybe more defendants, may be in Stone’s future.

02-19-2019 , 10:02 PM

#8436

fatkid

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Join Date: Nov 2011 Posts: 8,860

Lol this **** is so funny. The quote is the felon who stole the election ballots.

02-20-2019 , 01:06 AM

#8437

Huehuecoyotl

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Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 29,257

Chait on the the latest WSJ Oped's legal genius move. Trump should be immune from congressional investigations of conduct before he was president.

The problem? The courts said Congress could investigate conduct before before being president when they allowed a Republican Congress to let the Starr investigation investigate everything under the sun that is Clinton.

But the WSJ says there is a difference. Trump may have committed so many crimes that he can't possibly defend against all of them and therefore it'd affect the office of the President, unlike Clinton.

http://nymag.com/intelligencer/2019/...a-mueller.html

02-20-2019 , 01:42 AM

#8438

uDevil

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Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 6,941

Seems reasonable. How otherwise can we explain that he's not already in prison unless it's that he's such a prolific criminal, liar and scumbag that no one can keep up with it all.

02-20-2019 , 01:56 AM

#8439

markksman

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Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 20,921

I say we burn that bridge when we come to it. Plus there is a process in place to deal with a president who can not actually do the job.

So let’s just get going and see what happens. No use worrying about how many thousands of crimes Trump is surely guilty of. Many of those will be beyond the statute of limitations. For the good of the country and more importantly for the good of President Trump, we need to thoroughly and exhaustively investigate each and every allegation. If he is the innocent man he claims to be, he will come out picture perfect. On top of that we would have mountains of data to use to re-examine investigative procedures of the office of the President going forward.

Seems like full steam ahead is a win for everyone.

02-20-2019 , 01:59 AM

#8440

blind squirrel

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Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 8,194

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChrisV

Vehemently disagree.

The institute of political science (or s/t) at my university in Bonn was announced to be named after Kissinger and all hell breaks loose.
For someone who wasn't a Nazi which is the most common issue here that still comes up from time to time, it was impressive how many people cared about it.

Edit: Despite all protest this endowed professorship was named after him in fact.

Last edited by blind squirrel; 02-20-2019 at 02:12 AM. Reason: Upon further research

02-20-2019 , 02:08 AM

#8441

smacc25

veteran

Join Date: Dec 2014 Posts: 2,969

Jeffrey Rosen possible pick for DAG.......

https://amp.theguardian.com/us-news/...-jeffrey-rosen

02-20-2019 , 02:41 AM

#8442

markksman

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Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 20,921

Any chance Jeffrey Rosen is just Rod Rossenstein in a pair of glasses with a fake mustache? Would Trump have any way of knowing one human from another?