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Old 02-12-2019, 08:51 PM   #7451
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re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

still, democrats get nothing while republicans get to piss away money on 55 miles of fence that could instead be used for lots of better things.
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Old 02-12-2019, 08:55 PM   #7452
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re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

The Senate just passed the decade’s biggest public lands package. Here’s what’s in it.
The Senate on Tuesday passed the most sweeping conservation legislation in a decade, protecting millions of acres of land and hundreds of miles of wild rivers across the country and establishing four new national monuments honoring heroes including Civil War soldiers and a civil rights icon.

The 662-page measure, which passed 92 to 8, represented an old-fashioned approach to dealmaking that has largely disappeared on Capitol Hill. Senators from across the ideological spectrum celebrated home-state gains and congratulated each other for bridging the partisan divide.

“It touches every state, features the input of a wide coalition of our colleagues, and has earned the support of a broad, diverse coalition of many advocates for public lands, economic development, and conservation," said Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.).

It’s a paradoxical win for conservation at a time when President Trump has promoted development on public lands and scaled back safeguards established by his predecessors.

...

The measure protects 1.3 million acres as wilderness, the nation’s most stringent protection, which prohibits even roads and motorized vehicles. It permanently withdraws more than 370,000 acres of land from mining around two national parks, including Yellowstone, and permanently authorizes a program to spend offshore-drilling revenue on conservation efforts.

...

Senate Energy and Natural Resources Committee Chairwoman Lisa Murkowski (R-Alaska), who co-authored the bill, inserted a provision that allows native Alaskans who served in Vietnam to apply for a land allotment in their home state.
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Old 02-12-2019, 09:02 PM   #7453
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re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

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Originally Posted by SuperUberBob View Post
Even this is unlikely. These people are stupid and they have pathetically short memories. Millions of them were going to lose their healthcare (or actually did) and they stayed with Trump. You have reports of farmers losing workers and even their actual farms due to Trump and still supporting him. My older family members spent a good chunk of Christmas Eve complaining about their massive medical bills and they still support Trump.
Sure. I meant that personal harm is a necessary condition for them dropping their support, but it's not sufficient. There's plenty of people in the cult that will be all in all the way down.
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Old 02-12-2019, 09:03 PM   #7454
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re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

While I 100% agree with you guys that Trumpism is absolutely a cult and that his followers are irrationally, unwaveringly loyal, there is the possibility of a non zero % of his base to chip away.

We have to remember that even though Trump spoke to the derplorables and his idiocy and hate resonated with them, it was the likes of Hannity, Coulter, Tucker, etc. that endorsed him as the guy who was going to lead them into the holy land. They legitimized him.

I think that the only possible way for him to lose his base would be if they turned against him. We have seen this happen on a few separate occasions when they disagreed with him on a decision, most recently Coulter being critical of him for the offer he made the Dems during the shutdown.

If he were to take a deal like this, sure he would try to spin it as a win, and even if the vast majority of his followers believe him when he points to an empty space and claims there's a wall there, if there is significant criticism from the old Stalwarts of Scum (Coulter, etc.) then there will be a cognitive dissonance in enough of them, watching mommy and daddy fight that a nonzero number of them will opt to side with the Stalwarts. We saw this happen on boards like Chiefsplanet just recently.

It's a ****ed up notion, that the only way he can lose supporters is if he isn't deplorable enough for their liking. There is no bottom. If a survey were to go out among the deplorables to see what % of them would straight up approve of concentration camps for all illegals, I'd say easily 40%+ would give the thumbs up.
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Old 02-12-2019, 09:08 PM   #7455
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re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

a 20-year smear campaign against hillary hurt her with a like 200 million uninformed people, and russia did a solid job convincing social media users of all types that both sides were the same and everyone's corrupt. and trump STILL lost by 3 million. that's with the full power of his "base"

dems really have to kick themselves in the nuts to lose 2020, but knowing the dems you gotta believe that's still a significant possibility
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Old 02-12-2019, 09:25 PM   #7456
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re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

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still, democrats get nothing while republicans get to piss away money on 55 miles of fence that could instead be used for lots of better things.
The Dems get to keep the Government open while Trump gets nothing of substance for the wall(Hannity was screaming he better not take this deal) and if he shuts it down again he'll own it again and get roasted
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Old 02-12-2019, 09:29 PM   #7457
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re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

7 million people are more than 90 days late on their car payment, and I suspect that excludes buy here pay here extortion rackets.

#MAGA
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Old 02-12-2019, 10:15 PM   #7458
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re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

Double Down he’s not losing one person in his base
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Old 02-12-2019, 10:22 PM   #7459
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re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

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The Dems get to keep the Government open while Trump gets nothing of substance for the wall(Hannity was screaming he better not take this deal) and if he shuts it down again he'll own it again and get roasted
This is the problem. Setting the precedent that the Democrats will barter away Republican priorities and their "get" is just keeping the government functional is a big, big problem.
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Old 02-12-2019, 10:26 PM   #7460
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re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

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Because if you give him literally nothing in the deal and everyone knows it, even he won't try to spin that, he'll just declare an emergency and divert some money that way, probably a whole lot more than what's being offered. I suppose it's debatable whether that's a better outcome because maybe the courts would stop it or it would look bad for him politically, but I'd personally rather not go down the path of encouraging him to test his powers as a dictator while just trusting that the system will hold him in check. Let him have his little fake victory rally while he just continues Obama's border fencing policies (that can easily be undone) until the clock runs out on him imo.
Just fund ICE and let him use ICE's discretionary powers to build some fence, which ICE already does.

He will spin that into a win like he spun the NK and NAFTA into deals after getting nothing from China and Mexico/Canada.

More to the point, I don't think this keeps the government open. It's a stone cold lock Trump will threaten to shut down the government at every opportunity to get some concessions and to make himself feel powerful.

Whether those concessions mean anything or hurt anyone is irrelevant to him.
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Old 02-12-2019, 10:26 PM   #7461
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re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

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This is the problem. Setting the precedent that the Democrats will barter away Republican priorities and their "get" is just keeping the government functional is a big, big problem.
Preventing the terrorist from shooting hostages is a win by any definition.
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Old 02-12-2019, 10:30 PM   #7462
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re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

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Preventing the terrorist from shooting hostages is a win by any definition.
He's not giving the hostages back or even promising to not get more hostages.

It's just a bad move on Dems' part to allow Trump to get, as Trump put it, a downpayment.

It's a massive win politically for Trump because the baseline expectation is no wall and because Americans are terrible at geography and big numbers and will think 55 miles and 1.x billion are big deals.
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Old 02-12-2019, 10:33 PM   #7463
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re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

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i like how he's already shifted the narrative from "build the wall" to "finish the wall". like he's taking credit for starting to build it already and ow its just a matter of putting the finishing touches on it.
Sad thing is he could probably tweet a picture of the great wall of China and convince at least half his followers the wall was secretly built overnight to pwn the libs.
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Old 02-12-2019, 10:34 PM   #7464
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re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

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Double Down he’s not losing one person in his base
This.

Trump supporters who have been getting ****ed in the ass so hard the last 2+ years and still haven't wavered aren't going to waver now. They'll ***** about how ****ty things are. They might even say a bad word or two about Trump in a moment of weakness. But once news comes about another caravan of Sharia Law Loving Drug Dealing MS-13 ISIS Muslim Hispanic Rapists making its way through Mexico, it's back on the #MAGA train.
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Old 02-12-2019, 10:35 PM   #7465
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re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

Is Trump the new William of Orange?
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Old 02-12-2019, 10:36 PM   #7466
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re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

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Preventing the terrorist from shooting hostages is a win by any definition.
Not when, in preventing him from shooting hostages, you educate him on how effective it's going to be for him to take and shoot more hostages in the future.
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Old 02-12-2019, 10:38 PM   #7467
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re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

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https://twitter.com/Brandon_Bahret/s...50841638600704
https://twitter.com/cspan/status/1095382455735988225
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Old 02-12-2019, 10:56 PM   #7468
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re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

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Old 02-12-2019, 10:56 PM   #7469
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re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

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Originally Posted by Double Down View Post
While I 100% agree with you guys that Trumpism is absolutely a cult and that his followers are irrationally, unwaveringly loyal, there is the possibility of a non zero % of his base to chip away.

We have to remember that even though Trump spoke to the derplorables and his idiocy and hate resonated with them, it was the likes of Hannity, Coulter, Tucker, etc. that endorsed him as the guy who was going to lead them into the holy land. They legitimized him.

I think that the only possible way for him to lose his base would be if they turned against him. We have seen this happen on a few separate occasions when they disagreed with him on a decision, most recently Coulter being critical of him for the offer he made the Dems during the shutdown.

If he were to take a deal like this, sure he would try to spin it as a win, and even if the vast majority of his followers believe him when he points to an empty space and claims there's a wall there, if there is significant criticism from the old Stalwarts of Scum (Coulter, etc.) then there will be a cognitive dissonance in enough of them, watching mommy and daddy fight that a nonzero number of them will opt to side with the Stalwarts. We saw this happen on boards like Chiefsplanet just recently.

It's a ****ed up notion, that the only way he can lose supporters is if he isn't deplorable enough for their liking. There is no bottom. If a survey were to go out among the deplorables to see what % of them would straight up approve of concentration camps for all illegals, I'd say easily 40%+ would give the thumbs up.
**** his base. We don't need them. Focusing on maybe turning the 1 or 2 out of 100 Trump voters is a horrible strategy. Focus on turning out the vote of non-voters and new voters is the way forward. If these disaffected Trump voters want to come along, great. But actively recruiting them is a ticket to failure.
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Old 02-12-2019, 11:24 PM   #7470
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Old 02-12-2019, 11:33 PM   #7471
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re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

All 55 miles of it...
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Old 02-12-2019, 11:34 PM   #7472
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re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

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it's uncanny
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Old 02-12-2019, 11:44 PM   #7473
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re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

starbucks douche getting more cnn headlines running for president as a democrat with republican policies. **** off cnn.
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Old 02-12-2019, 11:55 PM   #7474
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re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

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it's uncanny
I'm dead. Her and Jr are Beavis and Butthead.
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Old 02-12-2019, 11:56 PM   #7475
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re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

if democrats get the 20% reduction in beds, then maybe it is not so bad.
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