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Old 01-10-2019, 04:51 PM   #2476
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re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

Michael Cohen becoming the country's hero by ending this nightmare would be incredible.
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Old 01-10-2019, 04:51 PM   #2477
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re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

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Originally Posted by microbet View Post
Yeah, walls predate wheels for sure. Wall of Jericho is like 8000 BC. The oldest estimate for the wheel is 4500BC.
nice try bro.. the world is only like 4000 years old...


eta- 6000 yrs.. or whatever those crockpots believe
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Old 01-10-2019, 04:55 PM   #2478
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re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

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Originally Posted by SenorKeeed View Post
Well his position is incoherent. He's really against giving money for a wall, fence or barrier simply because Trump is so strongly for it and giving him money would be a win for Trump. It's obviously pretty hard to reconcile past support for a barrier/fence/whatever with the current Democratic party line of 5 billion dollars for a wall is immoral.
I can do it in 4 words:

"I changed my mind." Wowee
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Old 01-10-2019, 04:56 PM   #2479
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re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

If they end up fully building a wall, it will be Mexico that gets the benefit of it as many Americans try to escape to the more prosperous side.
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Old 01-10-2019, 05:01 PM   #2480
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re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

Again, don't normalize Trump, fight him. Where there is evil, evil should be fought. That's the best way to reach the 65% of people who don't follow politics and don't know much about current affairs. The conservative message gets boosted significantly by grifters and should be drowned out. Trump is not a successful businessman, he's a criminal clown.

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Old 01-10-2019, 05:03 PM   #2481
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re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

At least the Post is willing to fight evil.

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Old 01-10-2019, 05:10 PM   #2482
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re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

Meanwhile in Ohio:

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Old 01-10-2019, 05:11 PM   #2483
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re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

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Old 01-10-2019, 05:19 PM   #2484
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re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

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Originally Posted by goofyballer View Post
Look at what the core possee is now. These are all total hacks, PR people (Conway, Shine, SHS, and one other), Miller (the policy genius who writes like an uninformed and insincere HS junior), and family. All the other rats have left the ship and the only remaining fuel is desperation, adderal, and dwindling money from racist olds.

not pictured: Hannity [who said he would quit if Fox fired Shine]

This crew could not run a fast food restaurant, much less the US government.
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Old 01-10-2019, 05:20 PM   #2485
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re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

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Originally Posted by WichitaDM View Post
Michael Cohen becoming the country's hero by ending this nightmare would be incredible.
Is there really much of his story that we donít know yet if Mueller is letting him tell it?
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Old 01-10-2019, 05:30 PM   #2486
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re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

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Michael Cohen Agrees to Testify to Congress About Work for Trump
Mr. Cohenís decision to appear before the House Oversight and Reform Committee on Feb. 7 sets the stage for a blockbuster public hearing that threatens to further damage the presidentís image and could clarify the depth of his legal woes. Mr. Cohen, a consigliere to Mr. Trump when he was a real estate developer and presidential candidate as well as informally as president, was privy to the machinations of Mr. Trumpís inner circle and key moments under scrutiny by both the special counsel, Robert S. Mueller III, and federal prosecutors in New York.

He could soon share them on national television under oath.

ďIn furtherance of my commitment to cooperate and provide the American people with answers, I have accepted the invitation by Chairman Elijah Cummings to appear publicly on February 7,Ē Mr. Cohen said in a statement. ďI look forward to having the privilege of being afforded a platform with which to give a full and credible account of the events which have transpired.Ē
The
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Old 01-10-2019, 05:37 PM   #2487
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re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

Trump now saying “I obviously didn’t mean it” about Mexico paying for the wall.
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Old 01-10-2019, 05:38 PM   #2488
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re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

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Originally Posted by alazo1985 View Post
He voted for bills that approved fencing in 2006 2009 and 2013Ėup to 700 miles of it. He also gave many speeches about how important it is to stop illegal immigration being the reason. Maybe you could argue that the new wall funding is for other parts that he doesnít think would be as effective but I think itís pretty clear heís changed his mind for political reasonsóthe base doesnít want a wall, and under no circumstances can they give Trump a win. This is a less extreme version of what the Republicans did to Obama.

Politically Schumer canít give in to Trump. And Trump canít cave now heís backed into a corner. The only way i see this ending is by Trump declaring the emergency and watching how the courts respond.
Trump isn't asking for 700 miles of fencing. He's asking for 2000 miles of wall. That is what he campaigned on, that's what his base voted for. Although, since there is no comprehensive plan for this wall it could be anything. Trump is shutting down the government because he can't get a blank check to do something something something at the border. And you support that?
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Old 01-10-2019, 05:39 PM   #2489
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re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

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Originally Posted by alazo1985 View Post
Is there really much of his story that we donít know yet if Mueller is letting him tell it?
I for one is interested in everything T done while with Cohen for his 10 years of suspected criminal activity.... 😂😂😂

This has to be the biggest show on earth in 2019 👍 The biggest I tell ye. 🙏 T 🙏
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Old 01-10-2019, 05:39 PM   #2490
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re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

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Originally Posted by bobman0330 View Post
Regardless of what you think about the validity of it, it's ****ing easy to reconcile supporting a package that includes the wall at one point and then not supporting it later. For example:

"That proposal was part of a broader compromise that included humane treatment of DACA recipients. Donald Trump blew up that compromise and he's not willing to compromise here either. Now he's trying to use the suffering foisted on ordinary Americans by his insane shutdown to force this wall he's so obsessed with past the normal appropriations process and we won't have it."
Sure, I was just saying that both sides are totally uncoupled from any actual policy arguments at this point. Whether 5 billion for some kind of border barrier is funded or not is simply not consequential as a matter of public policy. It is obviously an extremely dumb thing to shut the government down for 3 weeks over, but then the flip side is that it's also dumb to not spend 5 billion on a wall/fence/whatever so the government can open. The actual public policy of 5 billion for a wall happening or not happening is simply not consequential enough to justify a 3 week shutdown either way.

It is only consequential as a political matter: Trump getting something he can sell as a Big Beautiful Wall or Democrats denying Trump getting that win. And Democrats trying to sell the public policy of not appropriating 5 billion for a wall as actually crucially important in and of itself is pretty much nonsense.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDuker View Post
It's obviously extremely easy to reconcile past support for strategically placed fencing near population centers and ports of entry with a current refusal to consider a 2000-mile continuous concrete barrier.
Right but the 5 billion Trump is actually asking for is much closer to the former than it is to the latter
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Old 01-10-2019, 05:41 PM   #2491
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re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

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Old 01-10-2019, 05:44 PM   #2492
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re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

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Originally Posted by kerowo View Post
Trump isn't asking for 700 miles of fencing. He's asking for 2000 miles of wall. That is what he campaigned on, that's what his base voted for. Although, since there is no comprehensive plan for this wall it could be anything. Trump is shutting down the government because he can't get a blank check to do something something something at the border. And you support that?
It’s not a blank check, it’s 5.7b, not all of which goes to a wall. And even if it were all for the wall, it wouldn’t get far on a wall that would cost 25-35b to build. This isn’t about a wall. Trump doesn’t want one, and the Dems won’t give him one. It’s about winning and political gamesmanship.

Ask yourself this: if there is *one* thing that Trump has enough experience in to not be completely clueless (even if only because of those around him) it’s construction. A construction project requires plans, and blueprints, and cost analyses, and anything of this size would require a boatload. If they had anything like that they would be touting them left and right to grift supporters. But they haven’t, and they don’t. Trump doesn’t want a wall. But he has to fight for one because it was a campaign promise. If he wins, he “gets things done”—but this is just a start and he needs more support so he can finish what he started. If he loses, well then hopefully his tireless efforts can energize the base to vote for more “true” Republicans next time so they can pass it after he wins in 2020.

All the while Trump gives his cronies get the contracting jobs and he builds his grift capital by giving the deplorables a “victory”

Last edited by alazo1985; 01-10-2019 at 05:52 PM.
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Old 01-10-2019, 05:46 PM   #2493
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re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

House Speaker Nancy Pelosi says President Trump doesn't understand financial insecurity that federal workers face during the shutdown: "He thinks maybe they could just ask their father for more money. But they can’t.”

That’s good.
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Old 01-10-2019, 05:47 PM   #2494
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re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

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Originally Posted by SenorKeeed View Post
Sure, I was just saying that both sides are totally uncoupled from any actual policy arguments at this point. Whether 5 billion for some kind of border barrier
Can we stop this ****? It's a ****ing wall he wants, 30+feet high. The only picture we have of it is that it's made out of 30'+ metal slats with pointy tops.

Quote:
is funded or not is simply not consequential as a matter of public policy. It is obviously an extremely dumb thing to shut the government down for 3 weeks over, but then the flip side is that it's also dumb to not spend 5 billion on a wall/fence/whatever so the government can open. The actual public policy of 5 billion for a wall happening or not happening is simply not consequential enough to justify a 3 week shutdown either way.
Again, it does matter because what Trump is actually asking for is anti-American enough to be worth shutting the government down for.

Quote:
It is only consequential as a political matter: Trump getting something he can sell as a Big Beautiful Wall or Democrats denying Trump getting that win. And Democrats trying to sell the public policy of not appropriating 5 billion for a wall as actually crucially important in and of itself is pretty much nonsense.
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Old 01-10-2019, 05:50 PM   #2495
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re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

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Originally Posted by alazo1985 View Post
Itís not a blank check, itís 5.7b, not all of which goes to a wall. And even if it were all for the wall, it wouldnít get far on a wall that would cost 25-35b to build. This isnít about a wall. Trump doesnít want one, and the Dems wonít give him one. Itís about winning and political gamesmanship
This is entirely about the wall. And if the Dems give him enough money to start it they are going to be on the hook to keep giving him money to finish it. It's not political gamesmanship, it's a moron mashing buttons and throwing fits.
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Old 01-10-2019, 05:51 PM   #2496
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re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

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Originally Posted by kerowo View Post
Can we stop this ****? It's a ****ing wall he wants, 30+feet high. The only picture we have of it is that it's made out of 30'+ metal slats with pointy tops.



Again, it does matter because what Trump is actually asking for is anti-American enough to be worth shutting the government down for.
How high can the fence be before the fence is anti-American?
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Old 01-10-2019, 05:54 PM   #2497
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re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

dom with the 2-3 days pony there
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Old 01-10-2019, 06:04 PM   #2498
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re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

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Originally Posted by kerowo View Post
This is entirely about the wall. And if the Dems give him enough money to start it they are going to be on the hook to keep giving him money to finish it. It's not political gamesmanship, it's a moron mashing buttons and throwing fits.
Heís a moron but heís not mashing buttonsóif he were acting randomly he wouldnít have had the finger on the pulse of racist America well enough to be elected.

He is a career grifter that has been listening to Fox News for 6 years straight, absorbing the propaganda they are feeding the deplorables. While he almost certainly believes it to be true as well, he also knows that the one thing he canít compromise on to maintain his base is racism against brown people. He would be doing this even if he realized it was dumb because this is what his deplorable base wants.

I live in Trey Gowdyís former district, trust me, most of my neighbors are loving him. My racist coworker that had stopped posting politically since the election has made about a dozen Facebook posts today trying to rally the energy of the deplorable friends of his.
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Old 01-10-2019, 06:04 PM   #2499
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re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

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Jesus. Even the fox news host is like 'ok grandpa' half way through his rambling.
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Old 01-10-2019, 06:13 PM   #2500
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re: The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: State of Emergency

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Originally Posted by SenorKeeed View Post
Sure, I was just saying that both sides are totally uncoupled from any actual policy arguments at this point. Whether 5 billion for some kind of border barrier is funded or not is simply not consequential as a matter of public policy. It is obviously an extremely dumb thing to shut the government down for 3 weeks over, but then the flip side is that it's also dumb to not spend 5 billion on a wall/fence/whatever so the government can open. The actual public policy of 5 billion for a wall happening or not happening is simply not consequential enough to justify a 3 week shutdown either way.

It is only consequential as a political matter: Trump getting something he can sell as a Big Beautiful Wall or Democrats denying Trump getting that win. And Democrats trying to sell the public policy of not appropriating 5 billion for a wall as actually crucially important in and of itself is pretty much nonsense.



Right but the 5 billion Trump is actually asking for is much closer to the former than it is to the latter
Unfortunately, you are operating on one of the even-numbered levels and getting the wrong answer, when being either a level up or a level down would work just fine. Sure the wall doesn't matter in a practical sense, but the practical consequences of a shutdown don't really matter to Democratic decisionmakers either, as long as the voters blame them on Trump. So, why give Trump a political victory (the wall) in exchange for bailing him out of an ongoing political trainwreck (the shutdown).

Obviously, they aren't going to message it that way, they're going to say they oppose the wall (true!) and think Trump should reopen the government and negotiate in a normal way for his priorities rather than using bullying and hostage-taking to get his way (also true!), because those things sound better to the voters.

EDIT: To put it more concisely, you may be right that both sides are unmoored from policy arguments, but the GOP is also unmoored from the political argument too.
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