The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: Harm to Ongoing Matter - Page 536 - Politics and Economics

The majority of people will cheat on their partner at least once in life. Odd to label something like this immoral.

Obviously it’s a breech of trust but not one that has any bearing at all to a politicians fit for duty or job performance.

Americans are so insanely obsessed with policing the sex lives of other people. It’s crazy!

any person who secretly cheats on a spouse who would have left them had they known is highly immoral because they deprived them of information that would have led them to seek a different life than what they have

04-07-2019 , 12:27 PM

#13377

bacalaopeace

old hand

Join Date: Jul 2018 Posts: 1,881

Quote:

Originally Posted by SuperUberBob

If a person treats an intimate partner with disrespect, what reason do you have to believe that they'll treat their constituents differently?

That I cheat on my wife doesn't mean that I treat my employees badly.

04-07-2019 , 12:29 PM

#13378

kerowo

lolcat

Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 37,190

Quote:

Originally Posted by bacalaopeace

That I cheat on my wife doesn't mean that I treat my employees badly.

But it means you aren't as trustworthy as someone who doesn't treat their employees OR spouse badly.

04-07-2019 , 12:36 PM

#13379

microbet

Solar Powered

Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 56,514

Cheating on a spouse is obviously immoral. 50% of people doing it hardly means it's strange to call it immoral. 50% of people do a lot of immoral things. And why can't we try to elect leaders who are less immoral than average? (I don't think we can accomplish that, but trying isn't a bad idea.)

04-07-2019 , 12:47 PM

#13380

bacalaopeace

old hand

Join Date: Jul 2018 Posts: 1,881

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Sklansky

Not if there is near certainty that the spouse would never know.

04-07-2019 , 12:50 PM

#13381

bacalaopeace

old hand

Join Date: Jul 2018 Posts: 1,881

Quote:

Originally Posted by microbet

Cheating on a spouse is obviously immoral. 50% of people doing it hardly means it's strange to call it immoral. 50% of people do a lot of immoral things. And why can't we try to elect leaders who are less immoral than average? (I don't think we can accomplish that, but trying isn't a bad idea.)

While I don't agree that the bolded is obvious, I think the rest is correct. There are thousands, maybe tens of thousands, of people who would make good presidents, and we certainly ought to be able to try to choose one who generates minimal doubts about integrity and the like.

04-07-2019 , 12:50 PM

#13382

Videopro

Making TV

Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 19,240

Quote:

Originally Posted by realDonaldTrump

( twitter | raw text )

A Democrat friend of mine did the video for this event.

04-07-2019 , 12:52 PM

#13383

Melkerson

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 11,064

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrWookie

Having an affair is immoral, as it's a betrayal of the arrangement you made with someone. If the pol was openly polyamorous or something, that would be different.

Bolded is true, but as you say in the very next sentence you would have to know the specifics of the arrangement.

So, really the best you can claim is having an affair is likely to be immoral.

/nit

04-07-2019 , 12:54 PM

#13384

Melkerson

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 11,064

Quote:

Originally Posted by SuperUberBob

If a person treats an intimate partner with disrespect, what reason do you have to believe that they'll treat their constituents differently?

People treat different people differently. I don't know if that's good enough for you. But it's a reason and it seems empirically true.

04-07-2019 , 01:02 PM

#13385

feedthabeast

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Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 8,302

Quote:

Originally Posted by Melkerson

Bolded is true, but as you say in the very next sentence you would have to know the specifics of the arrangement.

So, really the best you can claim is having an affair is likely to be immoral.

/nit

If you have an open marriage it's not having an affair. It's having an open marriage. This seems pretty obvious.

Not sure why people are going to bat defending someone who, based on the evidence we have, is a piece of garbage

04-07-2019 , 01:11 PM

#13386

Melkerson

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Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 11,064

Quote:

Originally Posted by feedthabeast

If you have an open marriage it's not having an affair. It's having an open marriage. This seems pretty obvious.

These things are often described as "affairs" by outsiders, press, etc. because they're assuming by default a traditional relationship.

There are lots of things between traditional and open marriage. I met a guy who claims that he and his spouse are fine with "cheating" as long as no one else they know finds out about it. I'm not sure I'd call that open.

Quote:

Not sure why people are going to bat defending someone who, based on the evidence we have, is a piece of garbage

I'm not going to bat for him. He's a garbage human. Affair or not.

04-07-2019 , 01:11 PM

#13387

Clovis8

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Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 16,503

What people do I their sex lives is completely irrelevant to the rest of their lives (assuming it is legal). This is such an obvious point so many people can’t grasp.

04-07-2019 , 01:21 PM

#13388

weeeez

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 3,727

Quote:

Originally Posted by kerowo

But it means you aren't as trustworthy as someone who doesn't treat their employees OR spouse badly.

why is that?
I disagree 100%.
remove sexual pressure and people become a totally different animal.

04-07-2019 , 01:21 PM

#13389

kerowo

lolcat

Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 37,190

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clovis8

What people do I their sex lives is completely irrelevant to the rest of their lives (assuming it is legal). This is such an obvious point so many people can’t grasp.

Did you find that study that said more than 50% of people cheat?

How many people does someone have to lie to before you start to question their honesty?

04-07-2019 , 01:22 PM

#13390

kerowo

lolcat

Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 37,190

Quote:

Originally Posted by weeeez

why is that?
I disagree 100%.
remove sexual pressure and people become a totally different animal.

Why would you trust someone who lies under pressure (sexual or otherwise) more than someone who didn't?

04-07-2019 , 01:23 PM

#13391

dth123451

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Join Date: Jul 2012 Posts: 15,502

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clovis8

What people do I their sex lives is completely irrelevant to the rest of their lives (assuming it is legal). This is such an obvious point so many people can’t grasp.

Are you ever not wrong?

04-07-2019 , 01:26 PM

#13392

prana

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 8,513

That's why you should just ignore Stormy Daniels, Karen McDougal, etc. guys. Everyone does it.

04-07-2019 , 01:29 PM

#13393

weeeez

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 3,727

Quote:

Originally Posted by kerowo

Why would you trust someone who lies under pressure (sexual or otherwise) more than someone who didn't?

you have a way to twisting my words.
I didn't say I would trust MORE.
Also I didn't say sexual OR OTHERWISE.
My point was about sexuality only, as in passion vs raison.
Take out that layer and humans are capable of overcoming mountains with whatever arbitrary principles they agreed on.

cliffs:wouldn't trust less or more someone who cheated on his wife vs someone who didn't regarding a non sexual issue.

edit:and I think clovis is right.America has such a problem with sex , it's one of the most important issues of this country (and I'd argue you the world might be a better place if americans solved it).

04-07-2019 , 01:31 PM

#13394

prana

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 8,513

If someone is willing to break the trust of someone they are closer with than anyone else I think that is a reason to believe they might not be trustworthy with random people.

Cheat on your g/f in college, sure. Married and kids. Different imo.

Last edited by prana; 04-07-2019 at 01:37 PM.

04-07-2019 , 01:36 PM

#13395

batair

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Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 16,802

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clovis8

What people do I their sex lives is completely irrelevant to the rest of their lives (assuming it is legal). This is such an obvious point so many people can’t grasp.

As long as they dont hold themslefs out to be the moral arbiters of truth which includes being wholesome family men. If the GOP is going to preach we should be in monogamous relationships then them not doing that is fair game.

04-07-2019 , 01:38 PM

#13396

Clovis8

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 16,503

Quote:

Originally Posted by kerowo

Did you find that study that said more than 50% of people cheat?

How many people does someone have to lie to before you start to question their honesty?

As I’m sure you know there are studies citing numbers as high as 70% and others as low as 25%. Like all sex research it is plagued with reporting bias and definition bias.

My point is infidelity is very common. It’s a breech of trust for sure but the word immoral is very strong.

As for lying that is also a very odd bar. You have never lied about your sex life?

If lying about ones sex life precludes public office we better find a new political system because nobody will be able to work in this one.

Let me turn it around. Why does having an affair speak to ones ability to be a politician?

04-07-2019 , 01:41 PM

#13397

Clovis8

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 16,503

Quote:

Originally Posted by dth123451

Are you ever not wrong?

I’m wrong lots, just not about this.

04-07-2019 , 01:44 PM

#13398

microbet

Solar Powered

Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 56,514

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clovis8

Let me answer that question with a question. What constitutes the ability to be a politician?

04-07-2019 , 01:49 PM

#13399

davmcg

veteran

Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 2,535

Quote:

Originally Posted by bacalaopeace

Not if there is near certainty that the spouse would never know.

Such a scenario would make the adulterer very susceptible to blackmail. So not ideal for a high level public servant.

04-07-2019 , 01:51 PM

#13400

Clovis8

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 16,503

Quote:

Originally Posted by microbet

Let me answer that question with a question. What constitutes the ability to be a politician?

99.9%
Broad Policy understanding
Management ability
Historical understanding
Economic understanding

0.01%
“morality”

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