I cheer pretty hard for my country in the Olympics and for my country's athletes in various sports. I don't consider myself to be bigoted at all.

I don't completely agree with this as I feel that it spreads a very broad brush.

Nationalism is something I won't argue against you with as nationalists put faith in human institutions to make moral decisions and refuse to deride those institutions when they don't. It's naivety at best and blatant maliciousness at worst.

Patriotism is more a support for a series of ideas that act as a basis for national pride. Obviously those ideas can be destructive or constructive. If being a patriot involves supporting psychotic dictatorships, then obviously patriotism would be awful. If it involves constructive ideals, then it's not bad.

Again this generalized criticism comes from the false belief that nationalism and patriotism are mutually inclusive.

You're wrong. Sorry, I have as much experience with and education about America's sins as anyone. They are large and need constant work. That said there is no place on earth that has assimilated more people of different faiths, races, and nationalities than the United States. There is no country where the average or poor citizen has a better chance at justice, nor where he has more economic opportunity.

America often falls short of our ideals, yet it is the idea that has made us great. Trump shall pass, thanks to patriots, not critics.

To clarify, Trump deserves worlds of criticism, as do his racist and xenophobic supporters. Their small mindedness can not comprehend that the very thing about America, diversity and constant regeneration, is vital to our success. While other Western Democracies are dying, America continues to be a beacon/goal of many around the world, in a way France or Belgium will never be. The haters in the GOP see only the America they know or accept, and they will end up on the ash heap of history as we move forward.

Wrong. Please read this paper on the lack of economic mobility in America compared to other countries. It's amazing how heavily the numbers contradict the views of Americans.

https://www.brookings.edu/wp-content...awhill_ch3.pdf

Here's one on racial bias in the justice system of America

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_a...ustrating.html

Your delusions are shared by the elite in America who are by no coincidence mostly white men.

https://twitter.com/ProudResister/st...09528711757825

My delusions are based on the fact that America is a very large and very diverse country. Please point out which country you would like to live in, of similar size, as an immigrant. Continental Europe is mostly a system of guest workers.

America seems to be a goal of many in the second and third world, are they just buying into the myth and missing better places to emigrate to? By the way, I welcome them all.

Oh my god that post is atrocious.

hahahahaohwow.jpg

This is some very dumb liberal, Hillary Clinton 'America is already great! (for people like me)' type garbage.

That someone could unironically post this ITT just shows how obviously right and correct Victor's post was.

The idea of the unique greatness of America is pretty broadly felt, but man it is deep in the generation that grew up in the 50s and early 60s. It's not just the conservatives. The Kennedy/West Wing Democrats are the same. My mom, a lifelong liberal Democrat, has a very deeply ingrained idea that America is the ONLY place in the world that protects and values these ideals.

It's kind of understandable that generation would turn out like that considering both how far ahead of the rest of the world we were during that period and the fear from the cold war.

Imagine living in a country where the President is Donald Trump and waking up every day like 'boy, sure feels great to live in the greatest country in the world!' and not immediately punching yourself in the face.

I stopped reading here.

Just finished the Brookings piece, yes upward mobility is easier in smaller (much) ethnically homogeneous, guest worker based, Western Democracies. Fantastic. If I'm poor in Ethiopia, Nigeria, or Viet Nam I'm still shooting for the US. I think it would be the rational choice.

And yes, regardless of my color or faith, I would rather go to court as a defendant in the US or Western Europe than anywhere else in the world. Sorry, I guess I'm a homer.

Please name one, of relatively equal ethnic diversity, where it is better. I'm dead serious.

When a moved from Canada to the US, people would be curious and I would sometimes (being polite, I thought) as Canada and the US both being these decent places to leave with freedoms and decent bedrock values and blah blah and got a TONNE (not ton ldo) of pushback. Like no, framing canada and the US a both top 10 countries is a gross insult to the US which obviously is meant to dominate as number 1. It was weird.

Of course I'm moving the goal post. Sample size matters. We are a large country, with a very diverse citizenry, ethnically and racially. I view America as a place of opportunity for everyone regardless of ethnicity, I really don't see anywhere that has been tried on a similar scale or with equal success.

as an immigrant i think i'd pick somewhere in europe. most of those countries are like america minus the religious, healthcare, gun control and game show host leader silliness

What's wrong with Canada? It's a great place. You also have a better President than we do.

With the most prisoners in the world per capita (except maybe North Korea) the US does not get to brag about its justice system.

Can one become a full citizen of most European countries? I only ask because I have a lot of Arab buddies from Morocco and Algeria who came to America via France and Belgium, and they felt more isolated from those societies than they subsequently have in the United States. Granted, that's anecdotal, but it's pretty consistent "feeling" from North African immigrants in the US who also live in Europe. At least the ones I know, but maybe theyre just trying to be nice.

America's democracy is as strong as ever?

course

Agreed. Or Australia or New Zealand if possible.

No I would dare say Trump and the radical right have brought us to a crisis level. I just meant that Continental Europe seems to have been slowing down and depending more and more on their guest worker programs.

I also believe that RU/Putin is pushing Nationalism (EthnoReligious) in attempt to check our dynamism. Same as he is doing by supporting right wing groups in France, Germany, Poland, et cetera. It has to gall him that Russians love moving to London or New York, but you don't see too many Westerners clamoring to emigrate to Moscow.

Any party that runs on an anti immigration and anti trade platform is essentially doing the bidding of our enemies.

There's a reason the word "ethnically" is showing up in Sqred's posts.

Yawn...