It might cause some harm to a reader but the main problem with it is that it perpetuates and reinforces a way of thinking about women that is harmful to women in general.

Cuserounder.

Meanwhile while we are on the subject of being sensitive to how insults to bad people that would upset innocents, what about these dopes using the term "nazi" to describe those who are nowhere close to that? Do they not realize that when you call Ted Cruz a nazi, A Jew whose family was murdered in the holocaust might think, "do these kids think the nazis were only THAT bad?"

Clean up your own site troll.

Of course that's unacceptable. Unacceptable when it's aimed at non jewish people for the same reason but to call a jewish person a nazi is way way over the line. As is photoshopping them as a nazi

Who called Ted Cruz a nazi?

Do you have any similar thoughts when Trump said there were "fine people on both sides" when one side contained actual neo-nazis and all other varieties of white supremacists? Seems pretty bad to me.

Do you see where some posters here can get the idea that some other posters want calling someone a racist to be a much worse crime than being an actual racist? When the latter goes barely checked while the former is cause for exiling the whole forum? Does that seem kinda screwed up to you?

Shouldn't the story be how come right-wing playgrounds have to be shut down due to overt racism every time the experiment is attempted? Shouldn't that be what we're talking about instead of hypotheticals about someone calling Ted Cruz a nazi?

It's all over the place

from 6ix
"He's going with the line that white people are smarter and black people are more athletic, can't argue with genetics bro."

from heehaww
"When people say they don't want to allow "lazy people" or "criminals" they mean brown people."

from slighted
"PEOPLE thinking they get to decide who comes in[to the country] is racist,"

here's another insinuation of racism from slighted
"it's almost always based on the fourteen words... they just try to dress it up in "well what if we took only 20 yr olds", or "what if we put this random limit on it, or that random limit".. "

random invective from 6ix
"this is the dumbest ****ing **** i've read in a long time"
Just invective, no substance.

Imo, the above is all insubstantial bullying meant to stifle open debate.

Identifying something as racist is an argument. If you think nothing should ever be called racist, you are stifling debate.

I've ignored 6ix for a long time. But you want to nuke the forum over 6ix I can show you a dozen right-wing posters who are worse.

heehaw is absolutely right. These people are walking a 1000 freaking miles, risking rape, robbery, human trafficking and death - to escape some hellish situation back home that US Policy helped create. They're showing more incentive and drive than most posters here ever will in their lives - just to work their asses off doing jobs Americans don't want to do anyway - to make a better life for their kids.

They aren't ****ing lazy, and some mom with a kid in tow isn't a criminal. Drive through the Central Valley in CA sometime and look at strawberry pickers bent over in 100 degree heat for 12 hours - then tell me immigrants are lazy.

So what would you call it when someone sees a separated Mom and kid locked in a cage in Arizona and still makes a blanket assertion that asylum seekers are criminal and lazy? I mean I'm fresh out of ideas other than they just don't empathize with or want brown people in the country. If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck...

As far as slighted, I disagree. I don't think the idea of changing asylum laws or immigration policies all by itself is inherently racist. But I'm also not going to play this game where we have to look at every statement in a vacuum. If the people wanting changes in asylum laws are also launching their presidential campaign with quotes like:

And no one even cares about the fact that it's not Mexicans claiming asylum anymore. But hey how are we supposed to keep track of different groups of brown Spanish-speaking people? Yeah, it's racist. Period.

The fact that Trump came out of NOWHERE and rocketed to the top of the charts based on speeches like this where he threw away the dogwhistle and just said the quiet parts out loud - yeah it's beyond obviously driven by racism. And by extension I'll bet any amount of money if you can look into the hearts of hardcore Trumpfans 99%+ of them are pretty racist.

If you are around them long enough, they eventually start talking about stuff like anchor babies, or LA is a cautionary tale, or no-go zones, or whatever other fear-based propaganda they're consuming. Just go on chiefsplanet where they don't even try to hide it. They fantasize about shooting people at the border.

And the bottom line is if you still support Trump after he said "fine people on both sides" in Charlottesville - you're at the very least totally cool with a racist as your president.

I'm not going to get into a lengthy debate but I will answer this post.

1. Ted Cruz was just a random name. If he wasn't one of the many people called a nazi who cares? You know what I mean. You acquitted yourself well on the "ugly" issue and now you are going to relinquish that rightness by arguing about the nazi name calling?

2. To repeat a post I made a few months ago, it is probable that Trump was not saying that some neo nazis are very fine people but rather that some of the people on the bad side were NOT neo nazis and in fact were very fine people. The fact that this isn't common sense is very surprising.

I also posted that even if Trump was correct that some of those protesters were not neo nazis he was incorrect that they were very fine people. Because they advocated keeping Confederate statues in public places.

I figured Ted Cruz was just a random name. Do you have any specific instances of anyone calling anyone like Ted Cruz a nazi or is that just a hypothetical thought experiment as well?

So a hypothetical about some imaginary situation in your mind is worse than Trump publicly sympathizing with neo-nazis, and you're bending over backwards to give him the benefit of the doubt. Got it.

It's kind of funny that even in right-wing circles I've never heard anyone even try to make the point you're making - that Trump was singling out the non-neo-nazis who were fine people.

Charlottesville was literally a white-supremacist rally. Do you think the fine people got tricked into showing up?



Hmmmm hard to tell but those eagles look kind of familiar. Maybe you should google some of these names.

Do you know what fine people do when they show up at a rally and people on their side are waving a giant nazi flag? At the very least they leave, immediately. They don't march with tiki torches, chant "Jews will not replace us", then stick around all weekend for the festivities.

No fine people do that, ever.

It boggles my mind that even needs to be said.

Do you really think the neo-nazis would spare you if they ever actually got power? My guess is the rounding up into camps order would go something like illegal immigrants -> muslims -> latinos -> blacks -> gays -> jews -> liberals (aka communists). But maybe liberals go earlier I dunno.

Yes(more like a position that an argument I think) but to allow one to refer to a policy as racist, the claim should be backed up, like, how exactly is a merit based immigration system definitely racist? If the poster can't answer that clearly and to the satisfaction of the site, his post should be considered abusive and deleted. Also, it's beyond referring to policies as racist, people are being **called** racist and insinuated that they are racist without basis(I know the site has to use their judgement but, imo, the offense of the accused should be clear and almost overt).

You're right - discussion of merit-based immigration should be possible w/o calling the poster racist - although it's possible to make arguments the policy as enforced would be racist.

Once you allow "merit-based" it's pretty easy to game the system so that only countries/races/whatever that you want are able to pass whatever merit test you dream up.

Look at some of Australia's immigration policies in the not-too-distant past. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigr...ction_Act_1901

I don't want to nuke the forum but I think some would rather see it nuked that have honest conversation and debate here so they use insult and invective to try to shut people up.

If you think people are racist for not wanting criminals to immigrate I think you're being completely unreasonable. You may not know but this line of conversation started with Slighted saying something like, if right wingers wanted to explain how their policies aren't racist they can. I replied with the idea to judge immigrants which included, "hard working rather than lazy and law abiding rather than criminal". I never mentioned a border or a country. It's like you are saying that I would happily take criminals from Germany as immigrants. Do you not see what a smear and lie that is?

I never said anyone was lazy, this is all just smear. Lets say everyone is hard working, am I a racist if I would like to make sure we get the hardest working?

Your next paragraph, I never talked about any of that, you're talking about something else, other posters started invoke the US southern border and US policy. It's pretty frustrating when you're morphing what I said into all that.

The Philippines should have a merit based immigration system including the principles I described. Are you saying this statement definitely makes me a racist?

You know George Orwell was a socialist? He got shot in the neck fighting with the anarchists and communists in Spain. 1984 is pretty great, but if you really want to read something, try Homage to Catalonia.

Why David, are you going to murder them?

What are you thoughts on the show Ugly Betty?

I'm just replying to the stuff you posted. If you didn't say anyone was lazy, why did you use that in your example? It's really hard to have a vigorous debate when the hypotheticals keep shifting around.

Funny you should ask. Just over 48 hours ago, I pm'd the user, explained why I didn't think the screenname was appropriate, asked them to reconsider and they changed it almost immediately.

Fair enough. You're always welcome as far as I'm concerned.

I agree, and that's been discussed as well. There are discussions going on about this both publicly on the new forums and behind the scenes among long-time regs who are hoping for improvement in the community.

Who has ever even suggested that nothing should ever be called racist?

Good to hear.

I know a lot of people don't like the term 'PC' around here but avoiding that sort of harmful behavior is a large part of what being PC is all about.

You're doing nothing about a whole slough of problems your own site has that do not include problems this subforum has. So why are you so worried about things off site?

I don't know what's shifting(or what example you're referring to except my original post, "young better than old, healthy better than sick, hard working better than lazy) but you should prefer a hard worker over a lazy one and while it might not be a perfect way to judge, if you have a potential immigrant from Canada who has been on employment insurance 8 times for a total of 6 years over the last 15, you might be best off to judge him as lazy and choose a different person.

As far as policies being corrupted and racism being effected as a reason not to have them; even an open border policy can be corrupted into a less than open border and racism ensue. Just because a policy can be corrupted doesn't mean there shouldn't be policies.

none of this post is related to the two points I made. strange that some people thought I would want to endure stuff like that if I wasn't paid to

Totally unnecessary personal attack that imo violates the stated rules. I get your upset about what happened. Let’s for arguments sake that Mat made a huge mistake regarding the vaya post. How should he have corrected that mistake in your view? Would you acknowledge that he has made a good faith effort to correct that mistake? I think a lot of posters have moved on from it.