im very far out of my depth when it comes to brexit, being only knowledgeable about US politics, so i won't pretend to be able to argue that situation.

in the US's situation we have a president who has already said the quiet part of zica's policy suggestion out loud. he prefers white immigrants AND he's said the country is full, while also simultaneously saying american's need to have more babies.. a "merit" based immigration in the US will absolutely be racist. and the supporters of that racist system are themselves racist.

Hey I'm sort of curious about what I'm allowed to say too.

Maybe if this place is changing I'll stick my toes in some. I posted some a long time ago here when this was a more amicable place (maybe) and when being a conspiracy theorist didn't get you labelled a neo-nazi.

It looks like Slighted is arguing that all immigration policy is racist and he might be right. The idea of Nation-states is likely racist by default as they set up a us vs them mentality.

And nobody wants to be told where they can and cannot live (well not me at least). So I'm sympathetic to the open-borders crowd.

I'm also sympathetic to the crowd that says that Nation-states should not be done away because I'm a strong believer in local autonomy. I mean should Turkey be forced to take in however many Kurds want to go there even if it upsets their political situation? Ultimately it is a pretty abstract discussion and labelling anybody who is opposed to open borders a racist seems pretty silly.

...we aren't reducing anyone's value like we're about to turn them into their base minerals and sell them. We're trying to assess their likely economic impact on the country. .. ...we aren't reducing anyone's value like we're about to turn them into their base minerals and sell them. We're trying to assess their likely economic impact on the country. .. ...we aren't reducing anyone's value like we're about to turn them into their base minerals and sell them. We're trying to assess their likely economic impact on the country. ..

In some ways it's better if it's more abstract. If in fact the outcome of being in the EU means a more racist immigration policy then does that make remainers all racists? Obviously not has to be the answer.

trump is horrific but we simply can't reasonably insist that's there's always some implicit unstated part by everyone because trump says something.

Remember when the problem with this forum was that the lefties were all big meanies?

Oh and now luckbox is here? Lol good luck forum

Tyty. I'm going to behave and pm WN before I ever post anything too controversial.

Two questions.

1. Why wouldn't merit based immigration result in mainly Asians rather than white people?

2.If merit based immigration is unfair to brown people why does that have to mean that someone who wants merit based immigration wants to be unfair to brown people? In other word if tomorrow God doubled all brown people's expertise do you really think that almost all of those who currently espouse merit based immigration would now change their mind?

There's a rumour that the forums (possible) demise followed an account made by Mat getting banned. Probably not true but to quote myself:

I have no clue about what storefront is other than what progressive’s accuse people that they don’t agree with of being supportive of. I assume it is some neo Nazi website/organization.


Regarding?

Anyway, my take on this is that I think the Politics Forum would have survived easily with a significant decrease in personal attacks and a lot more intellectually honest back and forth.

Like take the current tangent on TRUMP immigration ideas being racist. Here’s a link to what it actually takes to become a naturalized US citizen:

Becoming a Naturalized US Citizen

Seems reasonable on balance to me. What don’t you like about it? I expect Slighted to weigh in with his objections.

Interesting. I sent Mat and Mason a PM with this link asking if they thought I would be banned if I posted it with the implication that I would defend the article’s author:

The ADL Report on Right Wing Extremism is a Fraud

I read part of the ADL report but quit after they included the Parkland shootings as right wing extremism. To me that is intellectually dishonest but ymmv.

Hello,

Just a warning, if you start posting your garbage truther nonsense you will eat a ban. This place may be a graveyard but that’s still way beyond the line of what is allowed.

Regards,

—jman220

When people say they don't want to allow "lazy people" or "criminals" they mean brown people. The people immigrating from the south already aren't either of those things, and yet that doesn't stop many* Trump supporters from believing that about them. They wouldn't automatically assume that about immigrants from Germany, but they happen to assume it about brown people coming from all different "Mexican countries".

*Not all. Some just think more working class immigrants coming in will be bad for the working class people already here (by driving down wages).

Hey Jman. Thanks but I don't need your warnings. Fortunately I don't believe that you will be a mod here for too much longer and I think WN knows how to handle me a little better than you do.
I'm sure that a lot of what you think would be considered garbage but since a free exchange of ideas is not what you are after, I won't be figuring out that out.
Best of luck on the new forums and I really mean that. I don't like the fact that you guys are going as I've said in other places, but it is what it is.
--Luckbox

I think you're making some unwarranted assumptions about the future of this forum, but I'd also say

1) You should respect jman's warning, he's still a primary mod here (and I am not)
2) You should understand that even if I were the only mod here, I would not allow discussions on the topics that got you in trouble recently either.

If at some point in the future there is a politics forum on 2+2 where I'm in charge, and you want to participate, and we have to hash out exactly where the lines are, I'm sure we can do that, but for now you ought to tread pretty carefully.

While the Parkland shooting seemingly wasn't motivated by right-wing extremism, the perpetrator was undoubtedly a right-wing extremist. The ADL's point might be a little misleading on that front, but their report is very specifically framed to talk about the perpetrator's extremist views, not the motivations for the specific crimes. As such while it might be argued that it's not the most helpful analysis, their claims about the perpetrators of the majority of incidents is accurate.

You would be absolutely wrong and this influence has been well documented and admitted to by the owners and administrators. Exiled and BANNED posters were given more consideration and influence than long time users.

But the sandy hook trutherism, supremacism and the rest will be an awesome combination with poker.

Bon apetit

I'm sure we can too and it is worth noting that there has never been a pog politics mod sympathetic to my views and that includes Monkey Banana who was downright antithetical to me at least initially.

I'm aware of your own attitudes on controversial topics and I always tread carefully in pog and certainly outside of it.

That being said it would be nice if the carve-out in the rules here that allows for personal attacks to be made on me were eliminated and this seems like an appropriate place to ask for that change. If I am allowed to participate here it seems wrong that people should be allowed to insult me and me alone based on my views, and I think the smugness that is demonstrated there goes to show why the admins have had a problem with this forum.

1. maybe it would, in the purest sense in which case it would still be racist. however, again, this administration has already declared they want northern European white immigrants not brown/black ones from ****hole countries.

2. it seems like your arguing that just because a policy has a racist outcome you don't have to be a racist to want that outcome even while knowing its racist?
to answer your hypo though, absolutely i believe they would change their minds.
with stephen miller at the helm all of it comes down to "we must secure the existence of our people and a future for white children."

Actually, no, if your “views” include telling someone who’s friend actually died in Columbine that it was really a hoax, and then you forward that person a video OF THEiR DEAD FRIEND’S BODY GETTING DRAGGED and then claim that it was actually just a dummy, then you can **** right off and go to hell. I’m confident that whatever becomes of this forum there ain’t no moderator, left, right, or ****ing no nothing party, who’s going to tolerate that sort of horrific posting and if you want to whine because posters correctly attack you for your horribleness then lol at you.

Regards,

—jman220

Hi adios:

Just so it’s clear to everyone, i’ve been unhappy with this forum for a long time since it was violating our purpose: vigorous debate and a little bit of fun. Even though I’m not posting much here, please be aware that I’m involved in all the changes taking place and hopefully we can make The Politics Forum a much better place for everyone and a place where logical arguments replace all the personal attacks.

Best wishes,
Mason

That's so good to hear.

And it would have been a tragedy if we lost this forum completely.

Okay so the forum is NOT closing?

Hi zigs:

The problem with your post is that this website, including all the forums, and we originally started with just one forum, was built on conservative/libertarian ideas. The books 1984 by George Orwell and Free to Choose by Milton Friedman were major influences and they still impact our thinking today.

Best wishes,
Mason

I didn't forward anyone a video. This isn't an email chain. Try to at least not make disingenuous arguments.

If we can fix it to our satisfaction, it won’t close. But all options, including closing, are on the table.

Mason