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Old 02-08-2011, 07:42 AM   #26
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Re: Paul Ryan, Face of Republican Fiscal Responsibility

If you are giving away money to the richest 2% its only right the poorest get something too.
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Old 02-08-2011, 08:18 AM   #27
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Re: Paul Ryan, Face of Republican Fiscal Responsibility

Rich people's money sits in a bank. Poor people have to spend their money. Money given to poor people isn't going to just sit somewhere, it's going to be pumped right back into the economy.
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Old 02-08-2011, 08:44 AM   #28
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Re: Paul Ryan, Face of Republican Fiscal Responsibility

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Rich people's money sits in a bank. Poor people have to spend their money. Money given to poor people isn't going to just sit somewhere, it's going to be pumped right back into the economy.
Yes because money in the bank just literally sits there doing noting.
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Old 02-08-2011, 08:47 AM   #29
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Re: Paul Ryan, Face of Republican Fiscal Responsibility

Yeah, and the money they spend ends up going to the rich people who put it in the bank.

Tax breaks just miss out an important middle step.

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But aren't the richest 2% getting to keep more of the money they earned, whereas this is giving the poorest something they didn't earn?
They earn the money by having two kids, which is a net benefit to society/economy/government/rich ppl. I assume there are other kickbacks in there like being a married straight couple which were deemed a benefit to society when the tax rule was created.
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Old 02-08-2011, 09:26 AM   #30
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Re: Paul Ryan, Face of Republican Fiscal Responsibility

I have no problem with taxing rich people more to give more money to the poor people. 9k seems a reasonable figure, but i have no moral objection to 25k, just a practical one.
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Old 02-08-2011, 09:30 AM   #31
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Re: Paul Ryan, Face of Republican Fiscal Responsibility

Ryan is guesthosting CNBC Squawkbox right now and he just decimated Congresswoman Maloney (NY-D). Actually she was just a ranting, partisan, fool who made herself look retarded and Ryans cool demenor and logic and common sense just added to how stupid she looked.
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Old 02-08-2011, 11:05 AM   #32
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Re: Paul Ryan, Face of Republican Fiscal Responsibility

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But aren't the richest 2% getting to keep more of the money they earned, whereas this is giving the poorest something they didn't earn? But don't get me started on the TARP bailouts and Wall Street bonuses or GE and Google paying peanuts in taxes.
What makes you think the richest 2% earned their money? Or continue to earn their money? Does definition of 'earn' include giving money to financial planners and letting them do it?

That 9k could be money so teh lazy poors dont rise up and lynch the Illuminati bc they had to scale back from HBO/Cinnemax to Family Cable. If it makes you feel better, think of it as a bribe instead of a handout.
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Old 02-08-2011, 11:35 AM   #33
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Re: Paul Ryan, Face of Republican Fiscal Responsibility

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What makes you think the richest 2% earned their money? Or continue to earn their money? Does definition of 'earn' include giving money to financial planners and letting them do it?

That 9k could be money so teh lazy poors dont rise up and lynch the Illuminati bc they had to scale back from HBO/Cinnemax to Family Cable. If it makes you feel better, think of it as a bribe instead of a handout.
What do you think financial planners do with money exactly?
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Old 02-08-2011, 12:02 PM   #34
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Re: Paul Ryan, Face of Republican Fiscal Responsibility

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how does that fix the deficit?
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It wouldn't but gosh darn it sure makes a good sound bite.
It's all part of the process.

Allow your mind to think beyond 3 inches in front of your face and you might begin to understand how a simplified tax code would result in financial reforms within the government.

And I'm not talking about disbanding the IRS.
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Old 02-08-2011, 01:07 PM   #35
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Re: Paul Ryan, Face of Republican Fiscal Responsibility

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But aren't the richest 2% getting to keep more of the money they earned, whereas this is giving the poorest something they didn't earn? But don't get me started on the TARP bailouts and Wall Street bonuses or GE and Google paying peanuts in taxes.
Sorry, just because Google pays a lower percentage than you do, doens't mean they're paying "peanuts."

15% of eleventy billion dollars is slightly more than 35% of your $100k salary.
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Old 02-08-2011, 01:31 PM   #36
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Re: Paul Ryan, Face of Republican Fiscal Responsibility

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It's all part of the process.

Allow your mind to think beyond 3 inches in front of your face and you might begin to understand how a simplified tax code would result in financial reforms within the government.

And I'm not talking about disbanding the IRS.
but you did talk about disbanding the IRS
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Old 02-08-2011, 01:42 PM   #37
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Re: Paul Ryan, Face of Republican Fiscal Responsibility

Yes, because that will create INSTANT savings.

But it would only be the beginning of the domino effect.

The tax code is a great place to start if we want to look at putting our financial house in order. The compliance savings alone run into the hundreds of billions. That money will relieve some of the pressure off any number of government agencies, reducing their cost.

A public that better understands how much money they're shipping to the government is a public that will also make better choices about how they let those dollars get spent, imo.

The only losers here are the guys working at H&R Block.
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Old 02-08-2011, 01:54 PM   #38
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Re: Paul Ryan, Face of Republican Fiscal Responsibility

It would be a start, except the richest few want the eccentricities of the convoluted tax code. Its where a bright lawyer can conjure up a loophole for 1 or 2 of his best clients, obtain a favorable investment credit, and therefore not pay any tax. If those were closed, then that bright lawyer would be unable to allow his wealthiest clients to avoid taxes. Then they would be in the same situation as the lesser folk. Its not the actual dollars to be paid, its the game of not wanting to pay anything. A fair tax code removes their duel.
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Old 02-08-2011, 02:00 PM   #39
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Re: Paul Ryan, Face of Republican Fiscal Responsibility

I may be a conservative, but I'm not an apologist for people who abuse the system to pay lower taxes through creative (legal) accounting.

I'm fine with closing the loopholes by implementing a fair tax system similar to what Ryan has suggested in the past.
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Old 02-08-2011, 02:32 PM   #40
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Re: Paul Ryan, Face of Republican Fiscal Responsibility

Many of you guys seem to think that Paul Ryan actually has a serious proposal to reduce the deficit / debt. He doesn't, and has never articulated one.
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Old 02-08-2011, 03:02 PM   #41
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Re: Paul Ryan, Face of Republican Fiscal Responsibility

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Except that Paul Ryan is all talk and isn't actually serious about any of that. He was elected and groomed from his twenties and without even looking I would bet money that he is from a rich and well connected family.
He was an aide and then a speech writer.

His family owns a construction business.

He's an extremely genuine individual.
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Old 02-08-2011, 04:00 PM   #42
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Re: Paul Ryan, Face of Republican Fiscal Responsibility

How will disbanding the IRS create savings?

Wont that just shift its work onto other departments, its not like you can run a country's finances on the honor system.
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Old 02-08-2011, 05:43 PM   #43
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Re: Paul Ryan, Face of Republican Fiscal Responsibility

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Originally Posted by Inso0 View Post
He was an aide and then a speech writer.

His family owns a construction business.

He's an extremely genuine individual.
Hey, KoolAid!
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Old 02-08-2011, 06:20 PM   #44
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Re: Paul Ryan, Face of Republican Fiscal Responsibility

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How will disbanding the IRS create savings?

Wont that just shift its work onto other departments, its not like you can run a country's finances on the honor system.
I think the ideas is that the IRS, which operates at large expense to administer an unnecessarily complex tax code, would be replaced by a trimmer entity that administer a simpler tax code for a net gain.

I agree that this is window dressing, though. It would score political points with conservatives to cut some government payroll, but as has been observed many times the US's fiscal problem ain't going away unless they tackle the big ticket items.
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Old 02-08-2011, 06:59 PM   #45
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Re: Paul Ryan, Face of Republican Fiscal Responsibility

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Originally Posted by [Phill] View Post
How will disbanding the IRS create savings?

Wont that just shift its work onto other departments, its not like you can run a country's finances on the honor system.
Actually, for every dollar spent on the IRS, something between 2-10 dollars (I don't recall) are recovered from audits.
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Old 02-08-2011, 07:47 PM   #46
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Re: Paul Ryan, Face of Republican Fiscal Responsibility

So I guess we should just increase the IRS budget by $200,000,000,000.00 then. Deficit problem solved.

Iron has saved us!

Last edited by Inso0; 02-08-2011 at 07:58 PM.
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Old 02-08-2011, 07:49 PM   #47
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Re: Paul Ryan, Face of Republican Fiscal Responsibility

So apparently, you're not aware of the concept of diminishing returns.
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Old 02-08-2011, 09:20 PM   #48
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Re: Paul Ryan, Face of Republican Fiscal Responsibility

Can you appreciate that if the tax code wasn't as ridiculous as it is, then maybe we wouldn't need to spend money on the IRS making sure people aren't cheating?

It's sort of hard to cheat on a 3" x 5" card that just has two lines with a .1 and .2 multiplier and then a bottom line for a total.

It doesn't take much more than a computer program to verify that W-2 and other related income documents reportings match postcard tax filings.
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Old 02-08-2011, 09:29 PM   #49
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Re: Paul Ryan, Face of Republican Fiscal Responsibility

Sure, but there's lots of ways to gather and hide undeclared income, like gambling winnings. People cheated on their taxes even before Congress started tacking phone books onto the tax code.
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Old 02-08-2011, 09:31 PM   #50
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Re: Paul Ryan, Face of Republican Fiscal Responsibility

But the IRS is creating jobs with the complexity.

This is basically the argument for a good chunk of the stimulus spending btw.
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