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Paul Manafort: Guilty on 8 Charges, No Verdict on 10 Paul Manafort: Guilty on 8 Charges, No Verdict on 10

08-28-2018 , 09:39 AM
OK, dumb legal questions:

A guilty plea leads to a conviction, correct?

Does he have to be found guilty to receive a pardon, or can Trump pre-emptovely pardon him?

If he’s pardoned, is he still technically convicted of a crime?

I’m basically not sure what this means for my Predictit bets.
08-28-2018 , 09:45 AM
Ford preemptively pardoned Nixon so I guess Trump can do the same
08-28-2018 , 10:16 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trolly McTrollson
OK, dumb legal questions:

A guilty plea leads to a conviction, correct?

Does he have to be found guilty to receive a pardon, or can Trump pre-emptovely pardon him?

If he’s pardoned, is he still technically convicted of a crime?

I’m basically not sure what this means for my Predictit bets.
Yes, guilty pleas result in convictions.

Yes, preemptive pardons are possible. This was addressed in Murphy v Ford 1975 when the pardon of Nixon was challenged.

However, yes, pardoned people are still convicted of a crime. Removal of record of a conviction is known as expungement and this is not granted by a pardon, nor is it within the power of the President. However, it's possible that a preemptive pardon could result in slam-dunk charges never being laid, because there's no point.
08-28-2018 , 02:43 PM
Seriously though, you guys are all out on the streets the second he pardons Manafort, right? Because that would be actual blatant abuse of power.
08-28-2018 , 02:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by LostOstrich
Seriously though, you guys are all out on the streets the second he pardons Manafort, right? Because that would be actual blatant abuse of power.
If he ****s up my Predictit bets I’m damn sure throwing some bricks.
08-28-2018 , 02:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trolly McTrollson
OK, dumb legal questions:

A guilty plea leads to a conviction, correct?

Does he have to be found guilty to receive a pardon, or can Trump pre-emptovely pardon him?

If he’s pardoned, is he still technically convicted of a crime?

I’m basically not sure what this means for my Predictit bets.
Judges can reject guilty pleas.
08-29-2018 , 08:12 AM

08-29-2018 , 08:35 AM
I don’t get why Trump doesn’t just pardon everyone today. It’s pretty obvious nobody’s going to do a damn thing in response.
08-29-2018 , 09:48 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dth123451
I don’t get why Trump doesn’t just pardon everyone today. It’s pretty obvious nobody’s going to do a damn thing in response.
Reports are his entire legal staff (besides Rudy) has been screaming at him for months not to do that. Not sure what happens when McGahn checks out, guess it’s on Sekulow to keep Trump from committing obstruction. Looking more and more like I gotta dump this bet.
08-29-2018 , 10:18 AM
“Don’t do it or...”

What? The Democrats will complain? Jeff Flake will do a sad emoji?

The only semi plausible reason not to is pardoned people can’t take the 5th anymore, but a) no chance Trump ever thinks that far ahead and b) he can just pardon again when they get in trouble for it.
08-29-2018 , 10:30 AM
There is an election in November. Pardons or firing Sessions will increase Dem turnout.
08-29-2018 , 10:36 AM
10 - 8 is a win anyway. I'm surprised Trump hasn't realized this yet.
08-29-2018 , 10:37 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dth123451
“Don’t do it or...”

What? The Democrats will complain? Jeff Flake will do a sad emoji?

The only semi plausible reason not to is pardoned people can’t take the 5th anymore, but a) no chance Trump ever thinks that far ahead and b) he can just pardon again when they get in trouble for it.
There’s like a tiny chance you get enough R senators to peel off if he goes full obstruction. I’m not optimistic about this, obv.

Even if the senate doesn’t vote to convict, trying to run in 2020 after impeachment is gonna be tough for Trump.
08-29-2018 , 10:38 AM
If Trump pardons Manafort get ready to hear about the shady pardons Clinton did.
08-29-2018 , 10:40 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bacalaopeace
10 - 8 is a win anyway. I'm surprised Trump hasn't realized this yet.
In fairness he "won" the election 63m - 65m so things aren't always so clear.
08-29-2018 , 09:16 PM
Manafort Wants His D.C. Trial Moved To Roanoke, Virginia

Roanoke makes me think of two things:

1. Virginia Dare (namesake of white supremacist website whose publisher recently partied with Larry Kudlow)
2. Opiods (In “Dopesick,” journalist and author Beth Macy takes readers to the front lines of the opioid epidemic in Roanoke, Virginia, and other nearby communities...)

I assume this motion gets laughed out of court?
08-29-2018 , 10:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dth123451
“Don’t do it or...”

What? The Democrats will complain? Jeff Flake will do a sad emoji?

The only semi plausible reason not to is pardoned people can’t take the 5th anymore, but a) no chance Trump ever thinks that far ahead and b) he can just pardon again when they get in trouble for it.
Meh, it's a very simple thought and this comes very naturally to the little Trump brain. As long as people are wanting a pardon he has more power over them. They don't even need to be of any use to him other than be in a position to grovel. He'll let people go to prison and keep telling them, "you'd better be nice to me".
08-30-2018 , 06:50 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jman220
The only reason for this is because Manafort is sending Trump a flashing red klaxon that says pardon me now or you might not like what happens. The next few weeks will be interesting.
Trump will pardon him, he knows the Congress won't do anything about it and what Manafort can tell Mueller is worse anyway
08-30-2018 , 09:01 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDuker
Manafort Wants His D.C. Trial Moved To Roanoke, Virginia

Roanoke makes me think of two things:

1. Virginia Dare (namesake of white supremacist website whose publisher recently partied with Larry Kudlow)
2. Opiods (In “Dopesick,” journalist and author Beth Macy takes readers to the front lines of the opioid epidemic in Roanoke, Virginia, and other nearby communities...)

I assume this motion gets laughed out of court?
What is his argument for change of venue. Giving the ridiculously high profile of the case, seems like any change of venue does nothing and would be rejected.
08-30-2018 , 11:06 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by markksman
What is his argument for change of venue. Giving the ridiculously high profile of the case, seems like any change of venue does nothing and would be rejected.
1. media coverage "has been most intense in and around Washington, D.C."
2. Since D.C. went 90% for Clinton, they would be "predisposed against Mr. Manafort"

Regarding #1, I think the judge already basically said "you can file for change of venue if you want, but I think the coverage has been national."
08-31-2018 , 07:31 AM
I would like to move my trial to my parents house. I think the pool of jurors there will be much fairer.
08-31-2018 , 10:52 AM
Manafort Associate Charged With Failing To Register As Foreign Lobbyist
The Justice Department on Friday charged Samuel Patten, a former associate of Paul Manafort, with failing to file as a foreign lobbyist for his work for a Ukrainian political party. Patten is expected to plead guilty Friday morning.

Though Patten worked alongside Manafort and worked with Manafort associate Konstantin Kilmnik, the case is being handled by the U.S. attorney in Washington and the Justice Department’s National Security Division, not special counsel Robert Mueller.

The docket in the case shows Patten is scheduled to appear for his arraignment and a plea agreement hearing in federal court in Washington, D.C. at 11 a.m. ET Friday.

The charging document filed Friday accuses Patten of acting as a foreign agent for the Opposition Bloc, a Ukrainian political party, between 2014 and 2018 without registering with the U.S. government. Prosecutors charge in the filing that Patten owned a consulting company with an unnamed Russian national and was paid by a Ukrainian oligarch through a Cypriot account.

As part of his work for the Opposition Bloc, Patten was in contact with members of Congress, the executive branch, and members of the American media, according to the charging document. He also allegedly arranged for the unnamed Russian national and unnamed Ukrainian oligarch to meet with members of Congress and their staff, per the filing. Specifically, he set up meetings in January 2015 between the Ukrainian oligarch and members of the congressional foreign relations committees, staffers at the State Department and American journalists, according to prosecutors.
08-31-2018 , 11:28 AM
4/4/18 - Accused Russian Intel Asset Teamed Up With GOP Operative
Patten acknowledged his collaboration with Kilimnik on Begemot, which he said operates entirely abroad despite its D.C. address. Patten also confirmed his work with Cambridge Analytica, saying he assisted the firm’s U.S. operations in 2014, and also worked with the company on “several overseas campaigns.” He declined to go into further detail, citing a nondisclosure agreement, but stressed that his work for Begemot and Cambridge Analytica were entirely separate.

...

There is little public information about Begemot, whose name literally translates (from Russian) to hippopotamus but also may be a reference to a character in the Russian novel The Master and Margarita.

...

Patten expressed skepticism about Mueller’s recent allegations about his colleague. “A lot of people in our country wish Mueller well. If this is his ace in the hole, I am profoundly depressed,” he said.

“I have no reason to suspect him of being a Russian agent,” Patten added.
09-12-2018 , 04:02 PM
Looks like he's trying to get a plea deal without cooperating in Mueller's investigation

09-12-2018 , 04:12 PM
Good luck with that, Paul

      
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